Van Norman End Mill Questions

Collets are a very satisfactory method of holding and driving your end mills, and was most likely the only way the machine had been used. While end mill adapters can be useful, they can also be a nuisance because of the added depth necessary to accommodate them. They are not required for manual machining, although they do serve a very valuable service in running CNC machines, permitting consistent depth settings where one is involved in repetitive changes of cutting tools.

Harold

That's a relief. Looks like I'm pretty well set up, then. It's a 1947 machine, apparently original paint, all the plates are clean and legible, and everything so far works pretty smoothly.

While I use collets (30 taper) almost exclusively..I have had endmills move in the collets, screwing up the work when taking very heavy cuts.

They tend to screw Into the work, pulling the end mill deeper into the workpiece. I still use them, but I make sure they are TIGHT and if Im going to make agressive cuts..I stick in an endmill holder Every time. Normal stuff..no biggie. The Collets your VN use are pretty darned good holders..so I wouldnt worry about having problems.

Gunner

" ..The world has gone crazy. Guess I'm showing my age... I think it dates from when we started looking at virtues as funny. It's embarrassing to speak of honor, integrity, bravery, patriotism, 'doing the right thing', charity, fairness. You have Seinfeld making cowardice an acceptable choice; our politicians changing positions of honor with every poll; we laugh at servicemen and patriotic fervor; we accept corruption in our police and bias in our judges; we kill our children, and wonder why they have no respect for Life. We deny children their childhood and innocence- and then we denigrate being a Man, as opposed to a 'person'. We *assume* that anyone with a weapon will use it against his fellowman- if only he has the chance. Nah; in our agitation to keep the State out of the church business, we've destroyed our value system and replaced it with *nothing*. Turns my stomach- " Chas , rec.knives

Yep, that's a common occurrence if you're crowding the cut. It is fairly easy to get around, just make sure that you assemble the collet and end mill with absolutely NO lubrication on the shank of the end mill and the collet interior. It's not beyond reason to use acetone or lacquer thinner to make sure they're absolutely clean of lubrication, then tighten the collet well. In truth, both holding systems present their own problems, but neither of them should be considered a bad system.

There are left hand spiral end mills on the market the can work in the opposite direction if pulling is a serious problem and one has no end mill holders. They push the end mill into the collet instead of out, usually stopping the movement fairly quickly because of the lighter load. Needless to say, if you're working near the table, or you have depth constraints, one of them can be worth it's weight in gold. I recall ruining a master tracer template for the Boeing 747 years ago, a job I had subcontracted from a larger shop, which had in turn sub-contracted from a source outside of Boeing. End mill pulled out unnoticed, cutting way too deep. Sigh!

Harold

Harold and Gunner have pretty well covered all the bases, but please allow me to throw in my 2¢

I have a V-N #6 that came with a complete set of collets, but no end-mill holders. Seeing as how the 5V collets are rather scarce, I decided to limit my use of them as much as possible. So, I made my own end-mill holders. It's not that hard to do. I used ordinary cold-rolled steel and didn't bother with hardening them. They are accurate and are holding up very well.

I'm not sure how much Z-axis space you have on your #12, but if you don't have them, already, you might want to outfit yourself with screw machine length drill bits. I recently got US-made fractional, lettered, and numbered drills in one big index on sale from Enco for an affordable price.

I've found that my V-N doesn't like Albrecht chucks; they're too long and eat up too much space. So, I got a ball-bearing Jacobs; big mistake. It's huge. Finally, I got conventional Jacobs chucks. They eat up the least amount of Z-axis. A sensitive drilling attachment is almost a must, too. It's impossible to get much "feel" of cutting action when cranking up on that massive knee.

In case you didn't see my post of a few weeks back, I've put together a CD containing V-N #6 and #12 literature, such as catalogs, accessory catalogs, letters from V-N, blueprint of the cutterhead assembly (the #6 and #12 cutterheads are identical), etc. I make the collection available on a donation basis. That is, I mail the CD with the understanding that the recipient reimburses whatever amoun they feel like. BTW, R.C.M readers are to be commended for their generousity. I've concluded there are some mighty fine people in the r.c.m.world.

Orrin

Walter - I've owned a VN#12 for about 6 years and have a good collection of tooling, but no end mill holders. I've never seen one with the 5V taper and I've looked. Apparently they either used collets to hold the smaller end mills, or used end mills having the B&S #7 shank. I would not want to use collets for driving larger end mills (1/2"+) or for heavy cuts because they will not hold reliably and can ruin your work. However shell mill holders were apparently popular, and I have found several sizes of these. Although you can still occasionaly find them, they are usually pricy. One just sold on Ebay with a 1" shank for $107. Ouch! Good luck, John

I have at least one shell mill. I should have bought more at that auction, I passed on a few collet/tooling deals before the machines were sold. I see now that I could have at least tripled my money on the boxes of collets, arbors and holders that were available, and still kept enough for my own use. I can't complain after getting the whole machine and a cart of tooling for $50, though.

Thanks. I have a shell mill holder with a 1" shank, a few B&S #7 end mills and a holder, and some shop made holders the purpose of which is unclear. I was able to confirm last night that I did get a sub milling head- it was inside the cabinet of tooling in the back. I have many pieces to the B&S dividing head but not the dividing head.

replying to Orrin Iseminger, clay wrote: Orrin, Hello, if you are still in the practice of sharing your VN #6 & #12 literature, I would be very happy to make a donation for your efforts. sincerly C. Revelle, WI.

18 years ago! Sheshh. Wouldn't any chance still have those cd's to send me one. New owner of a #12

Yes me the same (: