Dismantling mill and lathe for transport

I'm toying with the idea of dismantling my Bridgeport clone and Mk1 Student so they can be moved in a van rather than pay someone with a Hiab. Obviously
it's a fair amount of messing about but hopefully they'll end up in bits small enough to load with an engine crane. I'm just not sure how much the base/trunk of the mill will still weigh after removing the table, knee and overhead bits. Probably the best part of half a ton still I imagine.
Anyone tried this and think it's worth the effort?
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines



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We are going to do this with our Beaver, but it still leaves a lot of heavy individual pieces that you need a decent crane for.
We have to do it as the machine has to go through a street doorway that is too small for the complete lump.
The Ward 2A that is inside came in through the door in one piece apart from the large on/off switch and speed control which is like a wart on the front, and the motor and belt guard came off the back.
The door is slightly wider than a domestic house door.
Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Rushden, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk http://www.prepair.co.uk http://www.prepair.eu
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Dave Hi, I can't comment on the Student as I haven't tried but the Bridgeport was relatively easy. John Stevenson had taken it apart for me and we (he I just operated the brakes - a bit of 4x4) loaded into a transit side door easily with his forklift. Removing it at my end with a 1 ton engine crane (MM cheapo) was OK but a little more fraught. I had a little trouble lifting the main column (make sure you use a stout enough bar that won't bend :-)) and was lucky the van door allowed sufficient headroom to lift. The crane bulked at lifting it fully extended so the column had to be eased closer to the door. It is heavy and would be a problem to move with the crane over rough ground. John has written up his method and a search will find it. I have moved it again since and taking it apart and re-building is straight forward even for me and you get the opportunity to check the machine out. Several pieces are akward (the head) but not too heavy. All in all I would have no hessitation in moving a mill that way, mind you if it was just a short distance and I had a friendly hiab driver I would take the easy option for ฃ50 or so but I'm a cheapskate.
regards
Keith
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wrote:

Dave Hi, I can't comment on the Student as I haven't tried but the Bridgeport was relatively easy. John Stevenson had taken it apart for me and we (he I just operated the brakes - a bit of 4x4) loaded into a transit side door easily with his forklift. Removing it at my end with a 1 ton engine crane (MM cheapo) was OK but a little more fraught. I had a little trouble lifting the main column (make sure you use a stout enough bar that won't bend :-)) and was lucky the van door allowed sufficient headroom to lift. The crane bulked at lifting it fully extended so the column had to be eased closer to the door. It is heavy and would be a problem to move with the crane over rough ground. John has written up his method and a search will find it. I have moved it again since and taking it apart and re-building is straight forward even for me and you get the opportunity to check the machine out. Several pieces are akward (the head) but not too heavy. All in all I would have no hessitation in moving a mill that way, mind you if it was just a short distance and I had a friendly hiab driver I would take the easy option for ฃ50 or so but I'm a cheapskate.
Mine is a Spanish made Bridgeport clone rather than an actual Bridgeport but I'm hoping the essentials will be similar, including the weights. Getting stuff out at the far end is no problem because there are forklifts and even a digger if we need it. Loading will be the pain but I have the use of two 1 ton engine cranes so I'm hoping that I can manage somehow.
I agree, if it was a short distance I'd hire a bloke but it's London to Peterhead (north of Aberdeen) which means a potential saving of several hundred quid if I can do it myself during a trip that's being made anyway. Just need a big enough van now. The lathe gets a lot less use than the mill and it's easier to find someone with one you can borrow so if I can't get both machines in one load I can manage without the lathe quite easily until another trip.
Does anyone know how easily the lathe itself comes off the cabinet with a Student? I imagine the weight is split fairly evenly between the two so it seems worth doing.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines



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Dave
No problem with the mill then, The student round head spec lists the weight as 625KG a bit lighter than I would have guessed so possible to lift with the crane if you can get the access and balance right. Blocking up each end in turn might get the height to allow the legs of the crane under and then lift and back the van under it. Spec sheet is on the GandM tools website under manufacturers info if you haven't got it. I think I might take off the obvious (read easy) and try a lift before I started to take it all apart. Good luck.
Keith
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Dave
No problem with the mill then, The student round head spec lists the weight as 625KG a bit lighter than I would have guessed so possible to lift with the crane if you can get the access and balance right. Blocking up each end in turn might get the height to allow the legs of the crane under and then lift and back the van under it. Spec sheet is on the GandM tools website under manufacturers info if you haven't got it. I think I might take off the obvious (read easy) and try a lift before I started to take it all apart. Good luck.
Keith
I think the main reason I'd like the split the lathe is to help prevent things falling over with my penchant for going round corners on two wheels. I can rarely remember to drive sedately for more than a few miles. There was a rather 'pointed' convex dent in the rear wing of my old Sierra from a 4 jaw chuck that flew across the boot after I forgot it was in there on the way back from collecting it. I'm not sure if an entire Colchester Student would actually stay inside a van during a 550 mile trip with me at the wheel if it wasn't fairly low to the floor.
The mill, which I always refer to as the Bridgeport clone because I still can't remember what make it is after 15 years of ownership, is actually a Holke F 10 V having gone out to have a look. Picture of a similar one here.
http://www.industrystock.com/in_bilder/26985_1.jpg
About a ton I'm guessing and as the column and base are square it looks like it would lie in a van very nicely on its back or side rather than stood up once the rest of the guts have been removed. That would also make loading much easier with more room to attach chains or straps and get a crain jib inside the doors.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines



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wrote:

Dave
I nearly bought a round head Student that had already been split from the cabinet. The weight is really all in the main body. The cabinet is maybe 100kg but that's all. You could probably make the smallest part weigh 500kg but not much less. However off the stand it's more easily moved with an engine crane and the c of g is better for a van.
John BP method is here: http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/showthread.php?t &68&page=2&highlight=moving+bridgeport
If you loaded both into the van you'll be fairly well loaded and two wheel cornering might not be possible.
Charles
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Good point Dave, I managed to drop my little BH600 off the 4x4's it was sitting on. Well in fact I didn't - my wife who only drove the final 30 miles of a 350 mile journey managed to slide it accross the van at a roundabout?? Luckily no damage but a very quiet (after my swearing) last 10 miles. A few months before, I picked up a little Boxford on a stand and I thought, braced it well in the back of a Transit. After a few miles we started getting a loud bang from the back going round left hand corners, it was tipping as far as the bracing rope would allow then crashing back down as I straightened up. Only a short journey so I could just slow down but certainly supports your concern. :-)
I like the look of that mill, not seen one like it myself but it looks good and solid. As you say you should be able to get the weight low down and corner on two wheels with happy abandon. Stow the bits well; I must have stopped at least 3 times to re-secure odd bits and pieces that decided to go walk about.
Regards
Keith
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It's been a bloody good bit of kit. I paid ฃ1200 for it about 15 years ago from a mate of a mate who was leaving engineering complete with the 2 axis DRO, a big machine vice, clamping kit, imperial R8 collets and a variety of old and rather ratty milling cutters which neverthless did manage to shift metal on the rare occasions I did some milling rather than flycutting blocks and cylinder heads which is its main occupation. It's also cut the valve seats on nearly every head I've ported once I'd designed a carbide valve seat cutting system to fit it. I could probably still get my money back, if not more, if I sold it on.
Sadly, like a complete tosspot, I managed to smash the quill feed innards very early on by trying to press a gudgeon pin out of a piston by winding the knee up against the quill but it's not something I ever need to use anyway. I do still use it for pressing valve guides in and out but by winding the knee up against the ram not the quill (see I learn by my mistakes). My idiot assistant since departed also managed to break the DRO on one axis a couple of years ago if anyone remembers that thread. I now manage with a dial gauge on that axis when I'm centering things. Otherwise it's been completely reliable and has done many times its cost in chargeable work. The ways are getting a bit worse for wear now and I'm well past the maximum adjustment on the lengthwise gib on the table but that doesn't affect it for flycutting. Actually if I strip it down I can also get out that folded strip of Financial Times I put behind the gib many years ago to pack it out and replace it with something better. The Economist perhaps? :)
As you say you should be able to get the weight low

Packing I'm pretty good at after many years of despatching engine parts to people. The trick is to fill something, cardboard box or van makes no odds, so completely that nothing can actually move anywhere. Once the big bits are in the van I'll fill every conceivable gap with lengths of wood and chipboard and other sundries from the house and workshop. There certainly no shortage of stuff to shift. Part loads are more of a problem when you really do need to strap things firmly into place.
Thanks for everyone's comments. I'm still not sure about the fine details of getting these things to bits but it does look doable and a sensible option I'm now thinking. Now I just need a van that can take 2 tons or so. Plan is to buy one as cheaply as possible, tart it up a bit in the new workshop and hopefully sell it on at a profit, or at least not a loss, after it's done its work.
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines



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By the time you have dismantled these and done a return trip to Peterhead in a twinwheeled van you would have been cheaper paying to get them up as a part load.Or on the right pallets,properly secured,these machines would shift with Palletline for a lot less than the cost of the diesel.I have shifted dozens of similar machines this way with no damage.You don`t even need lifting gear as all their motors have tail lifts and pallet jacks.The other thing to remember is that from Perth north you are limited to sixty in a transit van and it`s policed with cameras,camera vans and unmarked cars.And I`ve got the tickets to prove it. Mark.
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 14:55:04 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@ems-fife.co.uk"

Reminds me of the first time that I got stopped for speeding. It was on the old A74 in a transit. I learnt the meaning of "non car derived van" that day!
Charles
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wrote:

I`m just heading off to load up and then down the 74 in the next ten minutes.All going well should be in Stafford for 5.30.Then skate a seven tonne cnc lathe about 200 metres,down a couple of steps and home again.Even that will cost ฃ150 for diesel and it`s only 600 mile round trip. Mark.
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 23:16:04 +0000, Charles Ping

Interesting. Currently they are listed as Private/Light Goods vehicles except for those over 3.5 tonnes. PLG's have the same limits as cars these days. AFAIK
Mark Rand RTFM
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Time you were reading the highway code again Mark.50 on single carriageways,60 on duals and 70 on m`ways.I`ve just been done for doing 56 on a single carriageway in a 3.5 tonne gross Iveco pickup. Mark.
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:56:25 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@ems-fife.co.uk"

Ahh but there is a loophole. seeing as you pay rent for 24/7 but are in bed for 1/2 of this then that means it's 100 on single lane, 120 on dual and 140 on motorways. That's also carrying 7 tonne..................
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On Fri, 30 Nov 2007 16:56:25 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@ems-fife.co.uk"

I do so love it when they change the rules like that.
It seems to me that one should then be limited to 50mph on singles if one drives an XK Jag then, since they are also over 2 tonne GVW :-(
Where do you class something like a Citroen Berlingo? It's a van derived car... Or a Range Rover. That certainly isn't a car.
Does one have to demand the design documents from the manufacturer in order to determine what it actually is?
Mark Rand (In a constant rage since they decided that, being a diabetic for 40 years, I was suddenly not safe in an LGV after 1998) RTFM
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That's the difference! Car limits apply for car-derived vans but the lower limits apply to light vans that are not car-derived. A lot of people got caught out soon after the rules changed particularly the drivers of the "baby" transits:-(

Good question. I guess some like the Berlingo and Transit connect are obvious but others maybe not so.
HTH
Guy
--
Guy Morgan
nb Virgo, WFB, Stockton GU
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wrote:

At the moment, it's a grey area, and down to the police force in question.
I know the Local police (lothian and borders) do it on weight, as an engineer at work had to produce the V5 when he got caught in a work van, so the police knew what offence number to put on his license (he got done doing 46 in a 40, so there were no issues over the fact he was speeding).
But I've also heard a guy got done on the A1 in Northumberland , and they treated his Vauxhall combo as a van
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Any chance of getting a shot of it for a weekend for some folding ?
--
Dave Baker - Puma Race Engines



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I can flog the guts out it very nicely myself thanks.
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