Used X3 mill?

Guys,
About a year ago I posted a thread regarding small mills suitable for CNC conversion:
http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t 2631
Since then I have been continuing my research into the conversion of various machines and have settled on one of the X-range of mills (as suggested by Trevor Jones, Tony Jeffree and Richard Bradshaw among others). I’ve also read the online accounts of how these mills have previously been converted – I found Tony’s article very interesting.
My preference would be the X-3 size of mill, but I’m struggling to find a second hand one. Are these mills bought mostly by hobbyists who are not so likely to sell, or is it simply not worth the bother of looking for a used one? Obviously I’m on a budget. Where would be the best place to look for a used one if indeed that is the best course of action. I’ve tried EBay and the internet in general, but with no luck so far. Unfortunately there seems to be a lot of engineering firms closing down at the moment – is it worth looking for a more industrial quality used machine from one of these? Does anyone have any experience of the used machine tool market at the moment?
Cheers,
Garth.
--
DR_G
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DR_G wrote:

Secondhand Chinese Sieg type mills don't come up very often, anywhere - and neither do secondhand minilathes, which have been sold in much larger numbers. I haven't worked out why. When they do, they tend to sell for a respectable fraction of the new price - not surprising, as there is very little supply.
Chinese mills have gone/are going up in price due the Pound's weakness - then again, they may be coming down soon, due to the fall in the Chinese export market. Hard to say overall, though on general principles I'd guess up.

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wrote:

Think on it. A Myford/Bridgeport/Senior/Boxford machine is likely to be getting on for 50 years old, more in a proportion of cases. The Seigs of the world just aren't that old yet.
To be honest, I think that the new prices of the X3 type mills are not out of order. They are generally less, new, than the price of used Bridgies and other "decent" mills.
Mark Rand RTFM
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Peter, Mark,
Understood.
Regarding the new X-series mills, there seems to be a massive price discrepancy between UK and USA, and also between similar mills with different branding.
Axminster :£887 + £49 delivery
ArcEuro: £751 + £60 delivery
Axminster were doing an offer on the smaller X2 mill, (around £100 cheaper from memory) which has now ended and its back to it's normal price. Am I correct inthinking that there is a large margin on these items?
Regards,
Garth.
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DR_G
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Garth,
The key differences in build between trader to trader are table length and possibly column height (mostly standard now), the plastic guard on the front - adjustable or fixed, with or without gas strut on Z axis - which dosen't really matter to you as you are considering to convert to CNC.
ARCs offering is the longest table available, with gas strut on Z axis and adjustable plastic guard.
PRICE: US vs UK - A. US purchase volumes are generally much higher than UK - so, this should explain one price issue. B. US specifications very from one supplier to another - again, check table lengths, with/without gas strut etc.. C. US prices are generally without tax. Depending on which state you live in, some may get away with paying tax, from what I understand - but I could be wrong. All the same, the price is without tax. U.K. prices include tax of 15 percent.
PRICE: UK vs UK - A. Some X3s are supplied with and some supplied without gas strut. B. ARC is the one who supplies with gas strut and with adjustable guard. In U.K., to the best of my knowledge, all competitors supply the long table version now. Dont know about the column. C. Age of stock governs cost. Lowest at present is TTMT trading on Ebay at £670.00 + £49.50 carriage. His stock may be old - dont know, purchased at very good exchange rate. ARC's new stock came in early January, at current exchange rates. Axminster is safeguarding its interests and basing their price on what they feel is suitable, and then, perhaps do SALES PROMOTIONS from time to time, as all competitors do. D. Margin is for each trader to decide based on their own stratigy. It is up to the customer to decide if he wishes to pay the price. At present, you are generally wrong in thinking that there are large margins in small machines coming into the U.K. from China, especially when you compare it with the overheads of each competitor - which is one area you clearly need to think about!
Ketan at ARC.
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Ketan Swali Wrote:

Ketan,
Thanks for that explanation. Can't find TTMT trading on Ebay though.
Cheers,
Garth.
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DR_G
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Do a search for X3 milling machine on ebay uk
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Ketan Swali wrote:

Or look here
http://stores.ebay.co.uk/totalmtt
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In article

Let it be noted, folks, this is Ketan trying to help someone find a competitor's product.
For the record, I was absolutely delighted with the service I received from Arceuro when I bought my X3 from them, and it has already earned its keep many times over.
I would recommend Arceuro without hesitation to anyone, and Ketan's posting only goes to reinforce my views.
More power to your elbow, Ketan!
--
Nigel

When the only tools you have are an X3 mill, a
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Nigel Eaton wrote:

I'll add to Nigel's comment. I have only ever seen helpful postings from Ketan, but directions on how to contact a competitors seems beyond common decency :)
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On Sat, 31 Jan 2009 22:38:00 +0000, Cliff Ray

Ketan is an uncommon man
--
Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!"
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John S.
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On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 02:10:39 -0800 (PST), John S

Ketans gear is top-notch stuff too. A couple of weeks ago I ordered a 5C-ER32 adaptor, and couldn't believe how well finished it was when it came in. Fully hardened, very fine ground finish all over, and the unground bits were a lovely deep black.
Another Kudos point for ArcEurotrade. I originally ordered a 5C collet chuck online from Warco about 2 weeks ago on a Sunday, together with some transfer punches. Nothing arrived by late Thursday pm, so I phoned them only to be told the Chuck was out of stock, and would be around 4-5weeks delivery. Cursed a bit then went and had some tea.
I was busy Friday morning, so phoned ArcEurotrade about 4 o'clock in the afternoon and ordered the Chuck and a backstop from them, and it turned up first thing Monday morning. Phoned Warco to cancel the chuck order, only for someone to tell me that they were in fact actually in stock now! Anyway cancelled that but said I was still waiting for the transfer punches, but later that day I get an e-mail cancelling the entire order and refunding me for the chuck and the punches - talk about customer service getting it wrong...doh. Warco always used to be so good as well.
Peter
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On Sun, 01 Feb 2009 11:07:04 +0000, Peter Neill

    I'd put Ketan up for sainthood, but he's not eligible. --
Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!"
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Chris Edwards wrote:

Just one slight mistake in life like dealing with Cynical Traders can cost one Sainthood! Lol
Bob
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writes

I'd never dealt with ARC before the Midlands exhib last Oct, and visited their stand twice, being dealt with by a different person each time, both of whom came across as technically competent and eager to help.
One of them did, indeed, refer me to one of their competitors.
It is regreattable that such customer-facing dedication is not the norm in this country, nor has it been for some years, and so I endorse the recommendation made above.
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On Sun, 1 Feb 2009 11:00:43 -0000, "David \"Billy\" Williams"

Really...? Must have been John's day off, I suppose, or the pubs were open. --
Chris Edwards (in deepest Dorset) "....there *must* be an easier way!"
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<G>
Bad man.
--
Nigel

When the only tools you have are an X3 mill, a
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Nigel Eaton Wrote: > In article

Yes, I appreciate what Ketan wrote. I've bought stuff for my ML7 from Arc Euro before and have always had great service. I reckon I'll have enough saved up in the 'hobbies' account to buy an X3 by the middle of this year (assuming I've still got a job). If the price difference is a bit less than currently I will go with ArcEuro and order a few bits and pieces to go with it.
Regards,
Garth.
--
DR_G
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