: >Lester Zick wrote: : >> On 25 Jan 2006 09:46:45 -0800, "Bob" in : >> >"Conciousness" is ill-defined and subjective. : >> >Besides, the goal is "intelligence", not : >> >conciousness. : >>
: >> So consciousness is subjective but intelligence is not? : >
: >Intelligence can be clearly and concisely defined, : >consciousness can not.
: Whether intelligence can be clearly and concisely defined has no : bearing on whether it is subjective. I think what you mean to say is : definitions of consciousness are subjective. But I don't see anything : to indicate your definition of intelligence is not subjective.
: > Intelligence: The ability to formulate an effective : > initial response to a novel situation.
: So what makes this definition not subjective? Consciousness could : undoubtedly be defined in comparable terms.
We, as humans decide. A reasonable response can be defined as one that a panel of judges decide is reasonable. There is some culture clash with this method obviously, but it can be decided upon.
: >Consciousness is an internal trait, intelligence is : >an external, observable trait. If a system behaves : >intelligently (solves problems it hasn't seen before), : >then it is intelligent. : >
: >Intelligence can be measured. Human level AI will : >be achieved when a computer can consistently pass : >the Turing Test against a skilled interrogator. : >
: >Intelligence can exist in degrees. A dog is more : >intelligent than a fish, but less than a monkey. : >But does a dog, monkey or fish have consciousness? : >Different people and different cultures disagree. : >It is like asking if they have a soul.
: Well it may be like asking if they have a soul but I don't see that : intelligence is any less subjective as a mechanism. You're arguing : intelligence can be measured but measures of intelligence are every : bit as subjective as people want to make them.
I disagree. Consciousness is purely subjective. Intelligence is a display of rationality. Consciousness is the realization of self and of the spontaneous decision that the self is important. In that manner, I believe that dogs, cats, monkeys, squirrels, etc. are conscious beings, they display fear, joy, etc. (in as much as I can tell). This will be a challenge to determine in a machine. In short, I believe that both intelligence and consciousness can be defined and measured.
IMO, DLC
: ~v~~