need help with adhesive for tank treads

Hello,
I am building a trracked robot based on Actel plastic conveyor treads. The problem I am having is attaching rubber pads to the treads. Actel
is a "slippery" plastic and things like contact cewment and 5 min epoxy do not stick to it. I want the rubber to aid in traction and minimize damage to floors.
I have also tried pop-rivets and small screw and nuts. The screws work best but I haven't found a way to recess the heads so they are below the level of the rubber tracks. Rubber is hard to counter sink.
Does any one know of a adhesive that will stick to Actel and rubber? Or a way to sucessfully counter sink Rubber?
The rubber is actually rubber matting and appears to have a cloth of some type embedded in it.
Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Monty
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    --Here's a site you'll find really useful for selecting the right adhesive: http://www.thistothat.com /
--
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Hacking the Trailing Edge! : through the moronosphere!"
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monty wrote:

You need to find out what type of plastic Actel is. If it's something like a high or low density polyethylene, you're going to have trouble finding solvents or glues that will adhere to it. Once you determine the plastic used, consult with a plastics distributor near you for *available* solvents/glues that you could use. I say "available" because while there are bonding products for just about all plastics, they're not always available to the public, either because of their health dangers, or because they require specialized application procedures.
The other thing to do is contact the makers of this Actel conveyor belt stuff and ask them for advise.
For countersinking rubber, sufficient pressure should cause a detent from the fastener, which might pull the head of the fastener below the level of the surface. But odds are eventually the head will pop through the rubber, and your pad will come off.
-- Gordon
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Gordon McComb wrote:

Right, PE is very hard. However, you might have success with Sikaflex, available in various grades (I've used the deck sealant) or even with PL Premium, a cheap construction adhesive, which is truly excellent and with luck, findable in your local hardware. Both are poly-urethane based.
Clifford Heath.
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If you can't countersink the rubber, perhaps you can use smaller pieces of rubber that you do countersink, and then bolt those to the belt.
Another off-the-wall idea... I've seen vinyl coated staples used to hold down electric wire runs. Perhaps you can push these staples through the belt from the outside, and then hammer down the other side.
Joe Dunfee
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Google doesn't turn up any results for Actel that seem to match that. Do you have the name right?

Did you try to rough up the plastic with sandpaper first? That might help. Or even cut slots in it?
I have a clue called E6000 (or something like that) which is sold in a tube at the local arts and crafts store. It's a clear hobby clue of some type. It seems to work well for odd materials like rubber and plastic and leather. I've used it with with good results to glue the sole of my old tennis shoe down and the leather sole of work boots down. Check out the glues at your local arts and crafts store or hobby shop to see what you can find.

Screw down a thin material that does bond well with rubber and then glue a layer of rubber on top of that?
How thick is the rubber you are trying to attach? How big are your treads? If it's thin enough, countersink or counter bore your plastic and make the screw pull the rubber down into the plastic recess leaving the screw head below the level of the rest of the tread. That will work until your thread wears down to the level of the screws and then you will scratch the hell out of your floors with the screw heads. :)
Maybe you could heat up the plastic threads until they were melting and then melt the rubber to the plastic? I have no clue if that could work. Just trying to think out of the box here.
Many glues are flammable so be careful working with a blow torch around glue. :)
The idea of construction adhesives that the OP mentioned sounds like a possible option as well. They make some really nasty stuff to hold vinyl floors down. Some of that stuff might work for you.
--
Curt Welch http://CurtWelch.Com /
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    --IIRC what you've got is 'acetyl' which is a resin-based plastic.
--
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Ah, or maybe it's actually acetal, which is sold by DuPont under the name of Delrin. It's similar to nylon I guess.
Here's some information about trying to bond it...
http://plastics.inwiki.org/Delrin
Without getting into complex treatments, I'd suggest very rough sand paper and maybe even a wire wheel to try and rough it up before trying to glue something to it. Basically, it looks like a material that's just going to be hard to get a strong bond to with any glue.
--
Curt Welch http://CurtWelch.Com /
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On Aug 4, 10:22am, snipped-for-privacy@kcwc.com (Curt Welch) wrote:

Curt
As a bit of an update:
The tracks are these: http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE=3740&PMT4NO=47128937&PMT4TP=*ITPD&PMITEM=76925213&PMCTLG=00
The MSDS Sheet from the manufacturer says it is "LF ACETHL chain" Product name: Kepital F10-XX+. Also identified as "Polyoxymethylene copolymer, actel copolymer" They can't even keep the name straight :)
The rubber is 1/8" rubber matting cut into 1.25" x 6" strips (the size of the flat area of the tracks).
The best option I have come up with is a layered approach.I will try bolting down one layer and then glue a second layer of rubber to the first with holes large enough to clear the screw (and washers) used to attach the first. The other option is using a base material that will adhere to the rubber and again bolt them on. I haven't figured this material out yet as the the Aluminum sheet I tried didn't adhere well to the rubber either. That might be a cleaning problem though. The treads were also sanded to aid adhesion also.
After looking at this link I guess gluing is not going to be an option :). http://plastics.inwiki.org/Delrin
I was trying to avoid all of this construction over head but I guess there is no way around it. The problem with bolting the rubber itself down is the rubber tends to mushroom around the screws which doesn't let the rubber lie flat on the tread. So now what will the base substrate be ?????????

Monty
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How about drilling holes and adding rubber grommets?
(Amazon.com product link shortened)
You could use 4 per tread if need be to make each tread sit flat on the ground.
You might be able to find plugs instead if the grommets tended to pull out in use (but the ones I saw seemed to be a lot more expensive). Or, fill the hole in the grommet with a rubber plug which was glued in place. Or fill the whole with a short screw from the back side to lock it in place?

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monty wrote:

http://www1.mscdirect.com/CGI/NNPDFF?PMPAGE740&PMT4NOG128937&PMT4TP=*ITPD&PMITEMv925213&PMCTLG
Yes, POM is Delrin. So, look for an adhesive system that will work with Delrin. Score the material first (as noted in the other messages here) to create more surface area. Apply a suitable primer (which one I haven't a clue). Then apply an epoxy or cyanoacrylate cement; both should adhere to the rubber if it doesn't have a silicone content (e.g., a buna rubber).
You can try online for Delrin epoxies and other cements; Reltek is a good place to star. But you may also have good results looking in the Yellow Pages for your local plastics distributor, and asking them.
-- Gordon
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To all that helped;
I decided to add "feet" to the tracks as the best compomise. These feet : http://estco.thomasnet.com/viewitems/thermoplastic-rubber-bumpers-feet/rectangular-feet?&forward=1 work out well and give it a more "tank like" look. After considering the cost of speciality glues and the required pre-treatments required to get adhesion, the $100 cost for these feet was worth it.
Of course drilling 6 holes in each of 80 track sections was a pain but....
Again thanks for all input from all contributors.
I am working on putting a web page together to show how it all works and goes together. I'll post it here when it is up.
Monty
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