Motor Weight Comparison Question

I am using the motor class "H150" as a nice round number to compare engine types.
Question: What is the average loaded weight of an H150 for various
types/brands of motors?
Do not count the added ejection charge/apparatus, (as using altimeter based ejection scenario). Do not count any rocket airframe or motor retention gear. DO count in the weight of the motor casing container if using a reloadable type engine.
a) Nitrous Hybrid engine b) Jerry-motor c) Aerotech single use d) Aerotech RMS e) RattWorks Hybrid f) any other motor that might compete for low-weight
Basically, I would like to know generally what brand of motor has the best thrust to weight ratio. As I have only used Aerotech and Estes lines up to this date, I do not know the qualities of other motors. I don't have data in RocSim on some of these motors.
TIA
~Duane Phillips.
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Motor
SU 320 H 29mm 180g pro 70g empty case
SU 320 H 38mm 180g pro Gross not readily available but ~50% higher empty mass than a 29mm
RL 320 H 29mm 180g reload 170g empty case
RL 320 H 38mm 180g reload 234g empty
SU 240 H 29mm 120g pro 50g empty case
SU 38mm 320H (IBCo) 95g empty
SU 29mm 240H (IBCo) 74g empty

USR 320 H 640-12 BK

God of rocket history, and modest too.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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What is meant by your use of "empty case"? Am I to add the first number to the second for overall loaded motor weight?
~Duane Phillips.
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Yep!
God of rocket history, and modest too. God of rocket history, and modest too. God of rocket history, and modest too. God of rocket history, and modest too.
Well, modest might be an overstatement :)

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
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So how far away are the "others" compared to the motors you have listed here?
~Duane Phillips.
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I would like to say something I believe I have never said on rmr.
The "competitive advantages" USR had in 1991 were a major factor in the "disenfranchising" USR received from TRA with Chuck Rogers (business partner AT THE TIME!!!!) as President.
In 3-92 I was removed from TRA on false pretenses.
In 11-91 (according to tripoli.org in 3-92 for the first time) and announced in 3-92 USR motors were decertified with no stated basis at the time (many variable excuses have been offered since, but never an official reason). Never a notification to USR either, in any form.
The real reason this series of events happened was U.S. Rockets:
1. Had actual inventory of motors unlike ANY OTHER TRA vendor at the time especially AeroTech. Thus it was handling actual demand.
2. USR had the single lowest cost motor in the consumer rocket market with the nozzleless 162H90-WS for $5 (not a typo).
3. USR was running the most dominant ads in the HPR and Tripolitan magazines (yes there was a better HPR magazine before the current counterproductive HPR magazine).
4. USR was hosting the nation's, and the world's largest consumer launches.
5. USR had the longest history and the largest customer base.
6. USR was a perceived threat not only because of these factors but because TRA leaders KNEW USR was singlehandedly responsible for not only the inspiration of TRA itself but for MOST of the GROWTH in membership of TRA, and in the PROMOTION of LDRS, which later became the TRA launch of record (when Chris Pearson got burned out and gave it to TRA).
USR was also the clear leader in many technical motor and electronics areas.

Back to the subject at hand.
AT SU and RL are similar for the same PROPELLANT MASS or actual power. AT actual power is not well known because they state 2SD above actual.
Totally different for Estes. They are BP propellant.
AMW and Kosdon have higher RL case masses, but similar propellant masses (since cloned).
USR has the ONLY motors designed to have power to mass advantages. THAT says it ALL.

If you don't like what you just read, GREAT!!
Neither do I.
Remove all TRA leaders from power and replace them with level headed folks.
Jerry
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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You are on the leading edge Jerry... also known as the bleeding edge. Others will scamper because they do not yet understand "freedom", and instead rely/react upon fear... and call it safety.
"In the mouths of two or three shall all things be established..."
I understand your point of view, but am powerless to do anything about it, as I have niether the technical background, the money, nor the finite experience in all things rocketry. And it is late - late in the issues that have been brewing for 30 years, to get up to speed... but I for one am trying. It is hard to keep at bay the sickening feeling that stupidity will reign, and seemingly very few avenues there are to do anything about it.
~Duane Phillips.
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wrote:

POINT.
This applies both good or bad. Rightnow the "mouths" are TRA and NAR primarily, and they are uniquely unqualified.

Nope. This series of posts is a BIG start. To the extent you change MINDS and the focus shifts from "cover your ass" to doing something proactive to fight the government illegal acts and the association illegal acts, we as mere citizens rock supreme.
Look at how much resources the government is applying to squash rocketry. I can safely say it is SEVERAL times the annual gross revenues of rocketry. That scary fact is telling. WE have power we are not even aware of, so we should work on improving and focusing it.
NOW.

Neither did George Bush and he is President of the United States and leader of the free world!!!
Do I need to even mention Arnold?

The very ones CHARGED with doing something about it, the NAR and TRA are doing the precise OPPOSITE. Thus and therefore, it is up to the rest of us to pick up that ball and run with it.
Let's get going. Please.
Just Jerry
We DO rock.
"The power of the people" is NOT just a saying.
Need to litigate out of it? Me and Kosdon are experts and 1000000% on your side :)

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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(unknowing GOD of wisdom muttered)
No. Just another American citizen who would not like to see his hobby regulated out of existence.
<snip a bunch>

OK. Exactly what is the next step that Joe-Simple-American-Hobbyist should be doing to "do" something about it?
It is flat _obvious_ that current actions are only the very beginning, and there is no "big-bang" to fix it all in one fell swoop.
~Duane Phillips.
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You are the first person in 10 years of rmr posts to ask that.
1. When buying motors NEVER use an LEUP even if asked or commanded. Cite the law. Do *NOT* overtly violate an order of a law officer, but if they give you a clearly illegal order, defend yourself by citing the law and INSIST they do their DUTY and give you PERMISSION to hold motors of any size with no ATF permit.
2. Same with ANY dealeryou comeaccross. Refusetobuyotherwise.
3. Same with any association. Refuse to motor or consumer certify or join or renew otherwise.
4. Host a launch. Invite all comers permits or not. Get an FAA waiver as required by federal law. Get landowner permission just because it seems reasonable. Notify the local fire officials you are flying "rockets" at the place and time.
5. Buy your motors ONLY from vendors that do NOT require ATF permits and those that are unsure, cite the law and have them receive their CTI product, log it OUT of the ATF system then sell it according to domestic U.S. law. 27 CFR 555.141-a-8 clearly states propellant actuated devices are exempt. Rocket motors are actuated by propellant. They are sooooooo exempt.
NOTE: They are so exempt BATFE has to spend millions of dollars to do tests to TRY to vilify them. Hint? Kinda gives you a hint where NPRM968 led them, eh? I wonder if they will classify that like they are these fraudulant tests?
6. Get a life. Fly 10x asmany rockets as you ever have before. Suck 10x as many friends in as you ever have before. Start a goddamn fad on rockets.

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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on second thought....maybe some government agent is getting taxpayers to pay for his hobby?
boy what i would do with that kind of budget....
--
Tater
President of MARS Club
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Let'sbe VERY clear.
That is EXACTLY what is happening here.
They are in DENIAL these efforts are in any way a deterrent to terrorism. They are addicted to the thrill, the money, the professional advancement and JUST LIKE A DRUG ADDICT they are in denial and play back pre-recorded excuses and messages to justify the course of action they have selected.
NO difference.
NONE.
Jerry

--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Jerry Irvine wrote:

Of course, if you really want "just like a drug addict", look at the DEA... (What do you think _they_ do with all the stuff they confiscate?)
-dave w
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wrote:

to pay

This is all very interesting fellas... but your post is posted to the wrong message... <g>
~Duane Phillips.
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