Why Does Posting About BP Rocketry Feel "OT"?

I've returned to this forum after a few years, and I've been reading posts for several weeks now. I'm a triple BAR, counting this time, my last major activity was in the 80's. Is the BP engine end of the hobby as dead as this forum makes it seem? Is there ssome other newsgroup I should be looking ofr that has split off? I ask this because I am an antique/tube radio restorer/fan and there are many divergent camps who just don't want to hear about what is going on outside their carefully designed mix of old/older/ancient and new/newer and current productoion components. It appears that the rocketry hobby has gone the way of drag racing and a gazillion other hobbies that started out as fun, cheap and accessible and suddenly became real serious and real expensive. The 15 year old, bought for a song "stockers" that had been the heart of an enjoyable weekend's drag racing in the early 60's were literally banned in favor of the obscenely expensive and wasteful "nitro burning fuelers" & "pro stocks" that have to be completely overhauled with exotic parts that cost more than the average mortgage between races. Given the speed with which electronic payloads have shrunk and become light and energy efficient, is there a better future now for BP engines in paper, plastic and balsa models than there was in the 80's or is there only a small nostalgia market left? Is there anyone else left who supports the theory that just cramming in more vaporized cash in the form of huge composite motors & filling out mounds of paperwork to qualify to own the motors is not the only way to enjoy the hobby? I'm not conciously trying to grind an axe here, but I am curious as to what is really going on. Estes seems to be TRYING to be resurgent, are they having much succcess? Is contest flying really dead, or practically so? If anyone wants to be so gracious as to make a serious reply, I would appreciate it. I'll even appreciate the smart aleck answers if they are trying to be funny and not just mean sprited. Neutrodyne

Reply to
John H. Smith
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Yes. I don't know what the is smallest "altimeter ejection" rocket that has been built today, but I'm sure it's well down into the model rocket size range.

I don't think "huge composite motors" are the only way to enjoy the hobby... in practice most of what I've flown is small-to-medium-sized composite motors in the G through I size range.

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

Well, I fly probably at least 10 times more BP motors during a typical season than I do APCP. My main reasons are primarily cost/flight, and field size considerations.

I really think that RMR is a relatively small subset of the entire sport rocketry community. And yes, that subset could possibly be skewed toward higher impulse motors.

Regardless, it's still pretty entertaining...


Reply to

I fly BP 10-1 over AP. AP is expensive running sometimes, $15-20 per launch. I've decided to scale back the size and altitude of my rockets in favor of more complex and whimsical designs. Knocking off Estes classics is fun and relatively cheap. Besides, it challenges my modeling skills..which is one of the reasons I got into this hobby 30 years ago. Loads of us fly BP....relax, you're not alone.

Reply to
Reece Talley

john: come on over to

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they have specific sections for low/mid/high power..... and its 100% rocketry/100% on topic/100% of the time...

shockie B)

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I have seen a dual deployment Big Bertha fly at one of our club launches. I believe it was flown on a D motor. It was flown by Bob Chmara who posts here from time to time. It was a really cool flight!

Mark A Palmer TRA08542...L3

Reply to
Mark A Palmer

I know there are altimeters that will fit in BT-50's and BT-20's, and I think I saw one the other day that will fit in a BT-5, so it's certainly conceivable to fly dual deployment all the way down to A-B-C power now.


Reply to
Doug Sams

HPR user numbers are down 90%.

In favor.


Power trips and user REGISTRATION at TRA/NAR.

Some people (90%) choose not to be registered.

Jerry told you so.


"90% of HPR/Amateur users are "lone rangers" who like to play with, fit test, and generally HAVE their motors in their posession as god and the law intended.

Hence why HPR is now down to 2500-3000 certified users (combined TRA/NAR) and amateur rocketry is up to well over 30,000 now.

Ahhh, the "advantages" of codification!

Rapid negative industry growth."

- Jerry Irvine

The rules by which individuals are certified to purchase motors and fly them should be very very clear, and consistently applied."

-Ted Cochran

"Sometimes an avocation becomes a passion, and perhaps an obsession. Perhaps it's a control thing. Or a penchant for secrecy. Or a love of rules."

- Ted Cochran

Reply to
Jerry Irvine


I wanted to be the first to do DD in a Beeg Bertha :(

Tentative plan called for LOC 38mm tubing, hand turned NC, TTW fin mounting, 29mm MMT and a ALTS2, providing if I could make it fit.

Oh hell, I'm going for it anyways.

Ted Novak TRA#5512

Reply to

Being a new BAR (and barely that... I only built and flew one rocket in the eighth grade), I had wondered a bit about this myself... HPR seems to be the big "visible" thing nowdays.

I particpate in hobbies far more fringe than model rocketry... when I can buy model rockets in Wal-Mart, Toys-R-Us, Hobby Lobby, Michael's, a very well stocked science center, and every model and R/C shop in town, it tells me that there's a big and _active_ market for modroc kits and supplies. (My local Michael's stocks a huge number and variety of Estes motors, including keeping five 24-motor bulk-packs on the shelf most of the time. I'm keeping my eye out for that 40% off coupon that shows up in the newspaper every few weeks.)

Question is... where are they if they aren't on this forum? (Before he jumps in,

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all-on-topic, all the time, blah, blah.) Maybe RocketryForum.com has more modroc talk... I dunno, 'cause I very much dislike webforums and don't pay attention to it. Some are on Yahoo Group's OldRockets, which is specifically about the kits of our various youths. (I don't know how old a kit has to be to be considered and "old rocket"... but right now, I think they're talking about SpaceShipOne more than anything else. :)

Maybe there just isn't that much to say about modrocs. Or maybe arguments about HPR stuff has just drowned out or driven away the modroc readers. (That wouldn't be at all hard to believe.)

-- Carl D Cravens ( snipped-for-privacy@phoenyx.net) Wichita, Kansas, US -- Read my model rocketry journal at

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Reply to
Carl D Cravens


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Use google to look back a couple of months, then go look at TRF and see what a difference talking about -rockets- really is.

Some people talk, some people fly. If you want to talk to people that fly I suggest TRF.

Drag racing was cheap? I don't think I'm up to the price of a car yet in rocketry. I never knew you could buy a race car at Walmart. I take that back, the Estes race cars are right next to the model rockets.

Is there any point to racing anything bigger than a honda CRX? Shouldn't everyone be satisifed with derby cars and a big hill? The majority of motors at our launches are 'C', by the way....

rmr is good for axe grinding.

I'd never heard about contest flying back in the 70s. With my NAR membership, SportRocketry magazine always has some article about a contest somewhere. Or club put on a closest to the bucket ping-pong ball contest just last launch.

Serious replies? I thought you said you'd been reading this group for a while,...;)

Joel. phx

Reply to
Joel Corwith

I think most rocketeers fly way more BP than composite/HPR motors. There is still significant interest in BP. Recent offerings from Estes, like the 24mm C motors, show that market research is still being done.

Overall model rocket participation seems to be down, including BP competition, but I think several factors have contributed to the decline, not just HPR. Every HPR flyer I know flys way more BP than composite. Then again, my NAR section (CRASH) is heavily into NAR competition.

From a BAR perspective, I think HPR has contributed a continuim aspect to the hobby. HPR pursuits naturally evolve out of model rocket pursuits. HPR allows a continuing evolution of skills beyond those basic to models. Most posters (but not necessarily lurkers) here are dedicated rocketeers and have simply moved along to HPR and the discussions here naturally involve recent HPR issues.

As with cars, there are those who like drag racing and those who prefer F1. Personally, I like models and BP as much as HPR. In fact, I like the challenge you speak of in regards to miniaturization of payloads and the application of HPR techniques and developments to modrocs. (I'm working on ways to beat existing A/B/C BP altitude records with today's contest certified motors; an, um, interesting challenge, to say the least.) Refinement is as interesting as power, IMHO.

Don't worry about rmr; on the surface it reflects a disparate image of rocketry. If you want to talk about BP, just do what I do, start a thread or ask a question. You might get a flame or smart-ass response, but it is worth it, IMO, to wade through the chaff in order to get the advice and opinions of some of those who post here. Be it modrocs, HPR, electronics, materials, spelling and grammar, politics, sex, religion, personal finances, quantum electrodynamics, haiku poetry, programming, legal processes, geek status, civil war history, digital cameras, or even NOX boosted big block Chevy drag racing, you'll get expert opinions and advice. At some point.

Just watch it with amateur rocketry; it's not in the FAQ. ;)

Reply to

Prove it.

Prove it.

Reply to

There is a contestroc forum on Yahoo. Contests are popular at the CATO launches in Connecticut.

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We have had to cancel a lot of launches in the past year due to muddy weather--we can't afford to tear up the farmer's field.

I did my Nartrek Gold using a Perfectflite altimeter capable of dual deployment using mini A motors. However, dual deployment isn't worth the trouble with a rocket that only goes up 280 feet.

I flew a Centuri Point clone(the original cone rocket?) on a B4-2 last Saturday--worked perfectly :-). But, the grass was too high for my Sprite and Scout clones. I hope to finish painting my Mars Lander clone so I can launch it this summer.

Zack Lau W1VT

Reply to
Zack Lau

check out

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alot of info... great people...

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Don't get me wrong, I LIKE rmr.

I have browsed TRF routinely for a long while, but have never been motivated to post there. Its okay, just doesn't pique my interest like rmr. Half the fun here is NOT knowing where a thread will end up. Its like real conversation which moves along different tangents as it goes, although the tangents might interrupt a "discussion" now and then. Moderated groups seem a lttle artificial to me; all discussion and no conversation.

Reply to

What he said. Besides there's nothing stopping us from disregarding a tangent and posting a reply to one of the prior "on-topic" message.

-dave w

Reply to
David Weinshenker

If you want to see trolling on TRF just look at threads with USR and me involved.

TRF is not immune or even motivated to "fix" it. Look:

Is Alex's the one where he said your products were crap or whatever? I believe his post was "edited" to take out the personal attacks what was left was his personal opinion of your product. As the saying goes, "If you don't want the answer, dont ask the question." Personally I've never built one of your kits. But judging by the other comments they sound like good quality. On any forum you get an occasional bone head.

I have learned it is TRF policy to keep messages from stalkers but not the responses by the principal. I have learned it is policy to delete actual customer replies, to stalkers who post false information about vendor product. The new customers posting FIRST HAND RECENT EXPERIENCE WITH PHOTOS and those experiences and photos are erased. THAT is OBSERVED TRF policy. That and having a "transmitter" in a loop resulting in DAYS of downtime NO OTHER WEBSITE ever experiences.

Sounds reasonable dont you think? Reasonable for a in home server. Reasonable for 2 owners who foot everything out of pocket with no repayment. Reasonable for mods who spend their valuable time with no repayment, not even a thank you. In fact, I feel jipped. When a user throws this in my face it is a great insult considering I give my time and money to support this site. Up until now, I have tried to be nice. I've given you every benefit of a doubt because I think you can provide valuable info on the forum. But as of right now, I could care less if you are misrepresented, stalked, or trolled. Good day sir!

Reply to
Jerry Irvine

While it does have it's drawbacks, keeping it in real time, is part of why I've stuck around so long. Well, that and rmr reminds me of the social aspects of being in high school again. There can be a lot of frustration involved with rmr, if you take anything posted here TOO seriously and that seems to happen quite a bit. People seem to forget at times, rmr is a hobby forum, not the 911 crisis center but that's part of it's appeal as well. I too would like to see threads remain more on topic and a lot less flaming and bashing but I know that's mostly wishful thinking. Perhaps the consistency of the inconsistencies, has some sort of weird appeal too.

I come here for good info. on flying, sharing ideas, on topic and off and to read all kinds of opinions and comments from a wide spectrum of people. There's comedy, drama, intrigue and all kinds of general crap all the time. RMR is the best soap opera around and if that ever gets out to the general public, daytime tv is doomed. I especially find information about flying, politics, etc. from people from outside the U.S. very interesting even if I don't always agree with it. Our diversity IS a good thing.

You know, if there's something posted here that bothers you, all you have to do is click to the next post. I still don't understand why some people will let anyone or anything, spoil the hobby or the forum for them. I just don't get it.


Reply to

Hmmm, I could have a big (fine paying) salary?


Reply to
Jerry Irvine

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