regarding E-matches

As some of you know... I got in a bit of trouble with the ATF like 4 years ago. There were some debates about how E-matches are regulated therefore requires a LEUP. Well when the ATF got me I had some oxrals and daveyfires (I made ejection charges out of them and they thought they were squibs) and I didn't get nailed on any of them... I even had a can of 4f blackpowder and again, no criminal charges on that either. I don't know if this means that ATF is just being a prick and trying to scare people into things or if they could really charge you with a crime if you had oxrals or 4f blackpowder for rocketry use. But in my test case, they either couldn't or didn't.

No I didn't have any antique firearms, only "modern" firearms (that uses smokeless powders) and I am sure if its illegal to have blackpowder without using them for shooting they probably would have given me that. That's not to say that the ATF wont give you administative trouble though, it just means they possibly cannot give you a criminal charge for having E matches/bp around.

I dont know what changes the Safe Explosives Act did however so dont flame me for it.

Reply to
tai fu
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Much as I kick ATF HQ for its stupid counterproductive policies, ATF has not been anything remotely like hardline in its enforcement actions wrt rocketry. The only fines I've heard of that rocketeers have been hit with are less than minor traffic tickets. ATF wants compliance, not a public relations black eye.

However, they are over time becoming more insistent on compliance and I see no reason to expect this trend to ease. They certainly can charge you with criminal violations but until the HQ bigwigs have decided to start making examples of people they go for voluntary compliance. But, as is the case with fireworks, repeat flagrant violations will quickly use up their patience. ATF won't waste their time prosecuting 2-cent violators where a verbal warning is clearly enough.

FWIW, pre-loaded ejection charge cannisters *are* squibs by standard industry definitions of the construction of such things. Sometimes rocketeers bring it on themselves by not doing their homework first. Just because you're using dynamite to kill gophers doesn't mean it's covered by the agricultural pest control exemption. ;-)

+McG+

tai fu wrote:

Reply to
kmcgrmr

You make a good point.. but lets not try to piss off the ATF and possibly the Judge..

Reply to
cgiucf

Quite true - the definition of a squib typically defines a device with an initiator (e-match) and a secondary composition. It is rather hard to argue that an e-match buried in a spoonful of BP is NOT a squib by that criteria. An e-match without a secondary composition is by that same definition not a squib.

Mike D.

Reply to
mjd

Yea, but they didnt charge me with having an E match or a squib... they took whatever that can burn however like all the estes engine, fireworks, "squibs", and took a picture of my PML Small Endeavor, I guess they were probably looking into it but didn't. All I got hit with was having a firearm...

Reply to
tai fu

And be glad they didn't go through the garage, find pieces of pipe left over from some plumbing repair, and charge you with possessing components of pipe bombs. (This *has* been done to a few fireworks hobbyists over the years by various police agencies. I think the legal term is "overcharging" in order to force a guilty plea on lesser charges.)

Most usually they do just what they did to you--seize everything they think they can get away with, making you sweat and then be glad they didn't send you for a meeting with Madame Guillotine. Lesson learned. ;-)

Face it: you had squibs, possessed and stored improperly. The fireworks were probably illegal too. The Estes motors, well, what with the fireworks for all they knew you were going to make skyrockets with those motors(more than a few people have!). And the Small Endeavour looked like it could hold quite a bit of flash in the nosecone for a really great huge skyrocket. The presence of illegal items effectively tainted everything else in the eyes of the law. What they did was SOP for cops these days. They seize everything that looks even vaguely suspicious *to them* and then take their time sorting through it and figuring out the best criminal case they can make with it.

But they don't want to further overload the court system with petty stuff so the only thing they charged you with was the one 'quality' violation they found: the firearm.

+McG+
Reply to
kmcgrmr

Why did you need a firearm? Are you a GANGSTA?

Phil

Reply to
Phil Stein

What was illegal about this? Was the gun illegal? Or your possession of it? Why? Is this why you left the country?

Frankly, I like your attitude, Tai, and wish you the best to make it back some day.

Doug

Reply to
Doug Sams

Reply to
arnold.roquerre

Why? Is this why

If Tai wasn't a U.S. citizen, possession of a firearm would have been illegal.

Personally, I think if you're allowed into the country *legally*, you should be afforded the same legal rights to possess a firearm as any citizen. Why? As a litmus test, mostly. If you can't be trusted with a firearm, you shouldn't BE here in the first place. That might make the bureaucrats use a little common sense when deciding who they let into the country.

But hey, I suppose expecting bureaucrats to HAVE any common sense is a bit of a stretch...

Reply to
Perry Cox

eject-o-matic! Mine is almost done.

Reply to
Glen Overby

There are a lot of places where you can't just walk around with one and there are more places where if it is concealed, you have problems with the law. In Philly, they're trying to end the year with an average of at least one homocide a day. I'm confident that they'll make it.

Phil

Reply to
Phil Stein

The point is you are not free if your freedom depends on not pissing off a government official. This is business as usual in China and now it is business as usual in the U.S. It is not reasonable or right or wrong it is who you know and not ticking off the power over you at the time. Very, very sad! I would like to blame the terrorists, but the U.S. was well on this path way before they stepped in. They just speed up the process.

Could the Rouse CO device be modified to activate via a spring loaded trigger? This would solve the problem completely.

cgiucf wrote:

Reply to
arnold.roquerre

Reply to
arnold.roquerre

Reply to
arnold.roquerre

Well apprantly I was in the USA illegally because my parents got me in with a I-95 back in 1989 when I was too young to understand all this. Well I assumed I entered legally because we took a plane and was let through the customs and all, and the fact my parents didnt take me back made me think we must be here legally. Of course they also somehow enrolled me in elementry through college, so I mean, what reason do I have to believe I was in the country illegally. Personally I would not overstay a visa intentionally but in this case it wasn't like I had a choice. I don't think I can ever come back to the USA again because the government seems somewhat tough about this. It doesn't mean I can't go to Canada however.

I had those firearms purely for recreational purpose, just like why any of you guys would have firearms.

Reply to
tai fu

Well, how about a timer fuse that is activated along with the motor when it lights (use a quickmatch to make up the distance from the back of the rocket to the ejection charge, then visco time fuse or those fuses used in a fireworks shell for the rest of the time) Or just use electronic timer that activates a spring loaded flint which in turn lights the powder? Or perhaps compressed air ejection...

Reply to
tai fu

How did the cops (feds?) come to find them? Were they on your person? In your car? House?

Doug

Reply to
Doug Sams

Yeah, ATF's policies about ematches and BP are pretty stupid. But geez, load the charges in the field from your carefully hidden can of BP. Don't leave any more contraband lying around than you have to...

There's a rocketeer here in the Pacific NW who has been quite successful using a spring system for deployment. It *can* be done.

And since I non-renewed my LEUP and don't plan to get another, I'm working on some of my own ideas to circumvent ATF regulated materials. It forces today's rocketeers back to the more intellectually engaging aspects of rocketry from the time before everything could be bought off the shelf.

To quote my own description of amateur rocketry: "Innovation, invention, the fine art of jerryrigging together the most improbable combination of materials and devices into a rocket and actually getting the darn thing to work."

By forcing so many hobbyists into this mode, ATF is making a big strategic mistake.

+McG+
Reply to
kmcgrmr

They were in my house, I dont carry those things on my person cause I dont have a concealed handgun license... Apprantly someone snitched on me though...

Reply to
tai fu

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