typo in NFPA1127 ?

NFPA states:
3.3.15.2 Model Rocket. A rocket that (1) weighs MORE than
1500 g (53 oz) with motors installed; and (2) is propelled by
one or more model rocket motors having an installed total
impulse of no more than 320 N-sec (71.9 lb-sec); and (3) contains
no more than a total of 125 g (4.4 oz) of propellant
weight.
shouldn't the above read:
3.3.15.2 Model Rocket. A rocket that (1) weighs LESS than
1500 g (53 oz) with motors installed; and (2) is propelled by
one or more model rocket motors having an installed total
impulse of no more than 320 N-sec (71.9 lb-sec); and (3) contains
no more than a total of 125 g (4.4 oz) of propellant
weight.
This is from the 2002 Edition of the NFPA 1127 code...
shockie B)
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yep, you're right! or dem dares sum purdy big model rockits! ;)
- iz
shockwaveriderz wrote:

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The definition is correct in NFPA 1122. Just add a "no" in front of "more".
shockwaveriderz wrote:

--
David W. Schultz
http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz
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David W. wrote: << In this case, why is the definition of a model rocket in the NFPA regs for HPR? >>
Just a guess, but maybe so they can distinguish MR from HPR?
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com (RayDunakin) wrote in

NFPA 1127 defines what it covers, so there's no logical need to define what it doesn't cover. Even if the author thinks that it's necessary, he should simply refer to tha appropriate section in NFPA 1122, and not copy text from that document into NFPA 1127. Like I said, the end result is that when the definition (or whatever is copied) is changed in 1122, 1122 and 1127 now have conflicting information. Now, add in the orange book, FAR 101, NAR and TRA safety codes, and the DOT regs, which all do this, and it's a wonder we can make any sense at all from this stuff.
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This should be in the FAQ.
--
Jerry Irvine, Box 1242, Claremont, California 91711 USA
Opinion, the whole thing. <mail to: snipped-for-privacy@gte.net>
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Questions regarding NFPA rocketry documents can be addressed to
Include your full name and company, an address to respond to, and the NFPA document, edition date, and your question.
A description of the NFPA proposal process can be viewed at http://www.nfpa.org/Codes/ProposalsAndComments.asp
This committee is NOT soliciting proposals at this time.
The various codes, where it can be purchased, its cost and NFPA-member discounted cost, and the NFPA website description of the document follows. NFPA membership costs $135 annually.
1122     Code for Model Rocketry (2002 ed. most current) http://www.nfpa.org/Codes/NFPA_Codes_and_Standards/List_of_NFPA_documents/NFPA_1122.asp $23.50 ($21.15 for NFPA members)
"NFPA 1122 applies to the design, construction, limitation of propellant mass and power, and reliability of model rocket motors and model rocket motor reloading kits and their components.
The 2002 edition of the Code contains changes intended to coordinate the three rocketry documents--NFPA 1122, 1125: Code for the Manufacture of Model Rocket and High Power Rocket Motors, and 1127: Code for High Power Rocketry. This has been accomplished by deleting redundant requirements that were contained in this document as well as NFPA 1125. This includes moving all model rocket motor testing and certification requirements from NFPA 1122 to NFPA 1125. In addition, the 2002 NFPA 1122 contains the new edition of the Model Rocket Safety Code. (Approx. 14 pp., 2002)"
1125     Code for the Manufacture of Model Rocket and High Power Rocket Motors (2001 ed. most current) http://www.nfpa.org/Codes/NFPA_Codes_and_Standards/List_of_NFPA_documents/NFPA_1125.asp $27.75 ($24.98 for NFPA members)
"NFPA 1125 provides reasonable safety guidelines in the manufacture of model and high power rocket motors designed, sold, and used for the purpose of propelling recoverable aero models. Portions of this new edition of the Code have been restructured to better address the manufacturing and certification aspects of both model and high power rocket motors. (Approx. 24 pp., 2001)"
1127     Code for High Power Rocketry (2002 ed. most current)
"NFPA 1127 applies to the design, construction, limitation of propellant mass and power, and reliability of high power rocket motors and motor components. This code also addresses the design and construction of vehicles propelled by high power rocket motors and the launch of high power rocket vehicles.
The 2002 edition of the Code contains changes intended to coordinate the three rocketry documents--NFPA 1122: Code for Model Rocketry, NFPA 1125: Code for the Manufacture of Model Rocket and High Power Rocket Motors, and NFPA 1127. This has been accomplished by deleting redundant requirements that were contained in this document as well as NFPA 1125. This includes moving all high-power rocket motor testing and certification requirements from NFPA 1127 to NFPA 1125. (Approx. 14 pp. 2002)"
- iz
David W. wrote:

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NFPA Committee, Scope, Responsibility amd composition responsible for rocketry codes are shown below
for fun, see how many people you know from among the rocketry organizations, manufacturers and vendors
we know that David Shatzer is the BATFE staff member that was responsible for motor HPR motor purchases to be used in a video to demonstrate their accuracy and destructive capability. ( see http://www.space-rockets.com/arsanews#atfe )
it is also interesting to see the various government agencies that have representation
the following material was excerpted from the NFPA reference at: http://www.nfpa.org/PDF/CommitteeMembers0703.pdf?src=nfpa
Pyrotechnics Technical Committee (PYR-AAA)
--- Scope ---
This Committee shall have primary responsibility for documents on the manufacture, transportation, and storage of consumer and display fireworks, pyrotechnic special effects, and model and high power rocket motors. This Committee shall have primary responsibility for the use of display fireworks and for model and high power rocketry, and the construction, launching, and other operations that involve model and high power rocket motors. The Committee shall have primary responsibility for documents on the wholesale and retail sale and storage of consumer fireworks.
The Committee does not have responsibility for documents on the use of consumer fireworks by the general public; on the use of pyrotechnic special effects before a proximate audience; on the manufacture, transportation, storage for use of military, automotive, agricultural, and industrial pyrotechnics.
--- Responsibility ---
Responsible for Model Rocketry (NFPA 1122); Fireworks Display (NFPA 1123); Manufacture, Transportation, and Storage of Fireworks and Pyrotechnic Articles (NFPA 1124); Manufacture of Model Rocket and High Power Rocket Motors (NFPA 1125); and High Power Rocketry (NFPA 1127).
--- Chair --- James K. Lathrop [SE] Koffel Associates, Inc.
--- Secretary --- Kenneth L. Kosanke [SE] PyroLabs, Incorporated
--- Principal --- Dane Boles [M] Quest Aerospace, Division of Marvel Enterprises, Inc. (Alternate: Bill Stine)
Richard Bowes [RT] Canadian Explosives Research Lab/CANMET (Alternate: Ettore Contestabile)
W. G. Bulifant, III [U] Dominion Fireworks, Inc. (Alternate: Tad A. Trout)
Jose R. Colon [E] Connecticut Department of Public Safety, Bureau of State Fire Marshal (Alternate: Mark C. Orellana)
John A. Conkling [SE]
Randall W. A. Davidson [SE] Risk International & Associates
Vernon Estes [SE] (Alternate: Arthur H. Barber)
Gary A. Fadorsen [IM] Pyrotech International Inc.
Felix J. (Phil) Grucci [M] Fireworks by Grucci, Inc. (Alternate: Felix J. Grucci)
Garry Hanson [M] Precocious Pyrotechnics, Inc. (Alternate: Kevin T. Brueckner)
Lansden E. Hill, Jr. [U] E. E. Hill & Son, Inc./Pyro Shows (Alternate: H. Stephen Frantz)
Robert J. James [E] City of Bloomington, Fire Prevention
Bruce E. Kelly [U] (Alternate: Scott Bartel)
John Kitchens [E] City of Los Angeles Fire Department
Gerald R. Laib [SE] US Department of the Navy Naval Surface Warfare Center, Indian Head Division (Alternate: Charles P. Weeth)
Peter M. Lamb [E] Town of Newport Fire-EMS (Alternate: Alfred J. Hogan)
J. Patrick Miller [U] Hardin-Simmons University (Alternate: Mark B. Bundick)
David J. Pier [M] MP Associates, Incorporated (Alternate: Larry Mars)
Michael W. Platt [M] High Power Rocket Manufacturing Dealers Assn.
Mary Roberts [M] Estes Industries
Gary C. Rosenfield [M] Industrial Solid Propulsion Inc.
David S. Shatzer [E] US Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms Explosives Study Group (Alternate: Brennan S. Phillips)
James R. Souza [U] Pyro Spectaculars, Inc. (Alternate: Gary E. Brown)
John R. Steinberg [U] Pyrotechnics Guild International, Inc. (Alternate: Steve A. Coman)
Dan Westcott [E] Gadsden Fire Department (Alternate: Gerald D. Ward)
--- Voting Alternate --- Diane Arend [E] California Department of Forestry & Fire Protection Office of the State Fire Marshal
Patrick C. Ferguson [U]
Julie L. Heckman [M] American Pyrotechnics Association
Lawrence Weinman [M] Luna Tech/Schneier-Weinman Consultants
--- Alternate --- Arthur H. Barber, III [SE] (Principal: Vernon Estes)
Scott Bartel [U] Black Sky Research (Principal: Bruce E. Kelly)
Gary E. Brown [U] Pyro Spectaculars, Inc. (Principal: James R. Souza)
Kevin T. Brueckner [M] Fireworks and Stage FX America, Inc. (Principal: Garry Hanson)
Mark B. Bundick [U] First Chicago Capital Markets (Principal: J. Patrick Miller)
Steve A. Coman [U] RES Specialty Pyrotechnics Inc. (Principal: John R. Steinberg)
Ettore Contestabile [RT] Canadian Explosives Research Lab/CANMET (Principal: Richard Bowes)
H. Stephen Frantz [U] Western Enterprises, Inc. (Principal: Lansden E. Hill)
Felix J. Grucci, Jr. [M] Fireworks by Grucci, Inc. (Principal: Felix J. 'Phil' Grucci)
Alfred J. Hogan [E] Reedy Creek Improvement District (Principal: Peter M. Lamb)
Larry Mars [M] MP Associates, Inc. (Principal: David J. Pier)
Mark C. Orellana [E] City of Willoughby Fire Department (Principal: Jose R. Colon)
Brennan S. Phillips [E] US Department of Justice Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco & Firearms Explosives Technology Branch (Principal: David S. Shatzer)
Bill Stine [M] Quest Aerospace, A Division of Toy Biz, Inc. (Principal: Dane Boles)
Tad A. Trout [U] American Promotional Events, Inc. dba TNT Fireworks (Principal: W. G. Bulifant)
Gerald D. Ward [E ] Bethany Fire & Protection District (Principal: Dan Westcott)
Charles P. Weeth [SE] Weeth & Associates, LLC (Principal: Gerald R. Laib)
--- Nonvoting --- Joseph A. Domanico [RT] US Department of the Army Edgewood Chemical & Biological Center Beach Point Road Aberdeen Proving Ground, MD
Rosemary Veigel Cooper [E] US Department of Labor Occupational Safety & Health Administration
Gary Zeller Zeller International
--- Staff Liaison --- Guy R. Colonna National Fire Protection Association
Ismaeel Abdur-Rasheed wrote:

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regarding the NAR L2 cert requirement for an RSO, the NFPA 1127 requires that the RSO have a knowledge of that document. TRA or NAR may use the L2 written test as evidence that the individual meets that requirement
see the excerpted code below
- iz
NFPA 1127 - Code for High Power Rocketry (2002 Ed., excerpted for editorial review)
Chapter 3 Definitions
3.3 General Definitions
3.3.14* Range Safety Officer (RSO). A certified user with overall responsibility for the safety, setup, and launching of all rockets at a high power rocket launch.
Chapter 4 Requirements for High Power Rocket Construction and Operation
4.1 Range Safety Officer Requirements and Responsibilities.
4.1.1 The range safety officer shall have knowledge of NFPA 1127, Code for High Power Rocketry.
4.1.2 The range safety officer shall possess the technical competency of high power rocketry safety as determined by the authority having jurisdiction.
A.3.3.5 Certified User. A certified user includes, but is not limited to, an individual who has licenses or certificates from Tripoli Rocketry Association, Inc., the National Association of Rocketry, or their successor organizations.
A.3.3.14 Range Safety Officer (RSO). At a high power rocket launch with only one certified user, the certified user also acts as the range safety officer.
many changes occurred following the 1998 edition with the following substantiation given with the agreement in principle :
"The NFPA 1127, 1998 Edition does not specify any qualifications for the range safety officer. A range safety officer should possess knowledge of high power rocketry safety in order to ensure that a high power rocket launch is conducted safely. Certified users who are have knowledge of the requirements of the NFPA Code for High Power Rocketry would provide the minimum requirements necessary to allow for a safe launch. High power rocket safety training programs offered by a recognized organization (such as the National Association of Rocketry) may be one of many ways that an individual may meet or exceed the technical competency of high power rocketry safety and knowledge of the NFPA 1127 standard so it should be left up to the Authority Having Jurisdiction to determine how this is met."

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NFPA 1127 May 2002 ROP (excerpted for editorial review)
1127- 6 - (1-3 Assistant Range Safety Officer (ARSO), A-1-3): Reject
RECOMMENDATION: Add the following definition: Assistant Range Safety Officer (ARSO)*. A person who works under the direction of the range safety officer and assists in the operation of a high power rocket launch. ARSOs typically act as LSOs, Spotters, and crowd control monitors, supervise the prepping and recovery areas, prepare and clean up the launch site, provide fire protection, and supervise the spectator and parking areas.
A-1-3 Assistant Range Safety Officer. At high power rocket launches with small numbers of rocket launches, the number of Assistant Range Safety Officers is dependent upon the number of rockets to be launched, the size of the launch site, the number of spectators and other factors.
SUBSTANTIATION: The basic premise of these comments is to improve public safety by detailing what is expected of the participants in the planning, setup and operation of a high power rocket launch. A great deal of the basics in these comments came from NFPA 1123 and NFPA 1126 and were revised for high power rockets and to try to fit the existing requirements in NFPA 1127. Also, since many high power rocket launches are family affairs, some flexibility must be built into these controls to allow families to participate. The same with small launches with few participants or even individual certified users who launch rockets essentially by themselves.
At a launch there are many who assist the RSO. Their qualifications and duties need to be detailed more and have been in a new chapter.
COMMITTEE ACTION: Reject.
COMMITTEE STATEMENT: This addition is not needed. The range safety officer is responsible for the safety at a high power rocket launch. When necessary, this officer already appoints other people for range operation responsibilities.
NUMBER OF COMMITTEE MEMBERS ELIGIBLE TO VOTE: 31 VOTE ON COMMITTEE ACTION: AFFIRMATIVE: 27 NOT RETURNED: 4 Bulifant, Council, Hartmann, Kitchens
Bob Kaplow wrote:

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