Motors > 62.5

I am in the same situation, & I've concluded God only knows for sure. Ask 10 people and get 12 opinions.

However, I am fairly certain that the NPRM making 62.5g the rule is not yet in effect. But dealers are either covering themselves by acting as if it is, or have been told (in error) by the ATFE that they cannot sell motors >62.5g to anyone without a permit.

I think that about sums it up...

-dave w

Weather or not you need a permit depends on the dealer you're getting the goods from. Some require permits, some don't. It's a crappy situation that we have been forced to deal with. I had to have a permit holder get an H-180 for me, so be happy you have them! (and burn 'em!) :-)

-- Joe Michel NAR 82797 L1

Nor is one needed.

NOT need. Ask. Say no. If they refuse to legally sell to you file a complaint with them formally.

Nope. Not any federal laws.

Correct. See above.

Manufacturer. Anytime an item is logged improperly it can and MUST be logged out. Then it can be sent to you. During the time period this situation is being corrected there will be alot of logging out of motors and loads from magazines nationwide.

ATF has one set of rules (LEUP) DOT has yet another set of rules (Toy Propellant Devices) USPS has yet another set of rules (mailability) We have not even begun to discuss state or local yet.

You are fine. Order more.

Jerry

Agreed. Suicide and murder.

what Ed said is correct, the STATUS QUO essentially remains in effect = until NPRM968 becomes law, or we lose or win the lawsuit...

My only question is how Aerotech gets away with mailing H180's through = the mail......

anybody care to explain that me? go ahead I dare you to.......

shockie B)

Only if you buy from the wrong dealer.

No.

Some dealers may have local ATF agents who aren't following the law. Others simply want to cover their butts due to the confusion surrounding this issue. ATF hasn't yet legally instituted the 62.5g limit, and has previously stated that motors with individual grains weighing no more than 62.5g are exempt. So until they change the law, the so-called "easy access" motors do not require a LEUP.

Because the individual grain weight falls under or at the USPS Limit. Ive gotten I200's from Magnum before.

-Tim

Very good, Tim, I see you have been paying attention....

To go into more detail, Aerotech has a letter from the Las Vegas,Nevada = Manager of Business Mail entry dated 7/27/93 which allows mailing the = following reload kits:

EX-9305148 EX-9305149 EX-9305150

see here:

This Aerotech document will clue you in to what those EX numbers apply = to:

So thats how Aerotech/Dealers can legally mail Easy Access motors thru = the US Mail......

This concludes todays leson on mailing HPR motors...

shockie B)

Each grain is only 30grams. USPS sent a letter to Gary saying they can mail these via the surface only mail. See exemption letters on Aerotech website under regulatory.

Art

You're lucky. I had an I357 cato. Aerotech told me that if I wanted a new reload, I needed to go bug the dealer (Magnum), but don't bother Aerotech. I didn't know that Magnum made Aerotech reloads. They said they would give me new hardware after I sent them the catoed hardware. I sent the casing and both closures. They replaced the casing but not the closures. Now I'm out a reload and two closures, and Aerotech doesn't care. By the way, I just heard they are jacking their prices up 20%.

Jim Parker

Actually dealer service of the sale is a good policy because they do the customer service and also try to resell new products at the same time.

That's just bad warranty service.

Did you know U.S. Rockets warranties AeroTech products?

Jerry

That's legal. Each grain is 30g or less just like a SU F21.

I probably have the cite on my website under USPS

Jerry

You're welcome to burn them at a NEPRA launch any time Herb.

-- Drake "Doc" Damerau

NEPRA President NAR Section 614 NAR 79986 L3 Remove "My Shorts" to reply

Only on a couple of motors (F's I think), not all of them.

Jerry, got a question - what was the original deal with the formation and breakup of "Powertech"? From reading between the lines on RMR these past few years, it appears that this was some sort of attempt at a partnership between you, Frank K, and Chuck R - why did it seem like a good idea at the time, and why did it turn out not to be?

I get the impression that the left-over resentments from that affair, whatever it was, are fairly close to the root of the grudges and acrimony that have been poisoning relationships between some of the major players in the HPR community since some time in the early 90's (and probably led to some blown opportunities to establish a sounder relationship with the BATF) - there's got to be some kind of story there, but one I've never seen clearly related. (It's like "the elephant in the middle of the room that nobody is talking about" or something...)

-dave w

I never said there was a problem....I was just curious to see if anybody = knew how they were legally able to ship easy access motors via the = usps... and Tim knew... shockie B)

>

Has anyone called the ATF to see what they have to say? I did..back in the beginning of June prior to my flying season..I called the ATF's public relations people..to see how they viewed all this Homeland Security stuff and rocketry...after all they are the one who could arrest me...They placed me on a conference call with two other agents...They said that I needed a LEUP or the new LUP for any motor with more then 62.5 grams of propellant...and that if I had motors prior to May that were "legally obtained" and "legally stored"..that I could still use them without any permit..but for new purchases I would need a permit..

Now remember this is how the ATF (public relations) views the law...not me! so be nice..

Tony Alcocer