LEUP for APCP motors.. What about KNO3 motors including sugar?

Please clarify whether the ATF rule for LEUP only applies to APCP motors. How about sugar & KNO3 motors or KNO3 composite motors? I enjoy making my
own motors. Can I switch to KNO3 or Ammonium Nitrate motors and not have to deal with the 62.5 gram rule? Or does it cover any propellant... I can't get a LUEP where I live.
Thanks, KT
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snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net writes:

The Orange book has generally been interpreted such that motors you make yourself are exempt from regulation.
The big stink about APCP motors is for commercially purchased motors.
Brian Elfert
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Well that makes no sence at all!!! I guess the ATF are clueless. I can't buy them but I can make them all I want.
Thanks, KT
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snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net wrote:

Read what the ATF has to say:
"a license or permit is not required to manufacture explosive materials (including propellant, igniters, etc.) for ones own use. A person manufacturing fo r his/her own use is, however, required to store non-exempt explosive materials in an approved storage magazine. Additionally, a permit is required if a person wishes to transport non-exempt explosive materials"
So if your city/town/county doesn't allow a Type 4 Magazine you're still out of luck. And if you plan to mix on one location and fly in another, you need a LEUP.
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You're much more likely to get stopped for speeding than to get caught transporting motors you made.
At least you can still get the raw materials without an LEUP for now.
Brian Elfert
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Brian Elfert wrote:

Perhaps. But you'll probably make the ATF's website if they do catch you ;-)
I always thought Rocketry was a self-regulating hobby. I guess I was wrong.
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I never told anyone they should actually do this. I just said the chances of getting caught are about nil. (Unless reported of course.)
Brian Elfert
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Brian Elfert wrote:

Is this codified regulation, or a Q&A?
I thought the DOT was in charge of transportation. Is the BATFE trying to regulate outside their domain?
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I think you're correct. Recently, I heard about a case where an ATF agent gave someone a hard time for not having their EX motors in a magazine while they were at a launch. The person told them that - ATF was not at the launch.
Then Alex says "I always thought Rocketry was a self-regulating hobby. I guess I was wrong."
Phil
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Davel wrote:

18 USC 842 (a) It shall be unlawful for any person (3) other than a licensee or permittee knowingly (A) to transport, ship, cause to be transported, or receive any explosive materials; or
18 USC 844 (a) Any person who (1) violates any of subsections (a) through (i) or (l) through (o) of section 842 shall be fined under this title, imprisoned for not more than 10 years, or both;
http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode18/usc_sup_01_18_10_I_20_40.html
--
David W. Schultz
http://home.earthlink.net/~david.schultz /
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David Schultz wrote:

I forgot to include the DOT exemption at 18 USC 845:
(a) Except in the case of subsections [1] (l), (m), (n), or (o) of section 842 and subsections (d), (e), (f), (g), (h), and (i) of section 844 of this title, this chapter shall not apply to: (1) any aspect of the transportation of explosive materials via railroad, water, highway, or air which are regulated by the United States Department of Transportation and agencies thereof, and which pertain to safety;
See also: http://www.atf.gov/explarson/safexpact/081103transportregs.pdf
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David W. Schultz
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Davel wrote:

Q&A on their web site. Dave has already cited the law that says you have to have a permit if you transport non-exempt materials.
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(Snip for Brevity's sake)

So don't tell' em! ;-)
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Kurt wrote:

So much for Rocketry being a self-regulating hobby. Any safety code violations we shouldn't mention?
And you wonder why the Government doesn't trust us?
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Alex Mericas wrote:

Actually I wonder why the government doesn't trust anyone, including themselves.
Ted Novak TRA#5512 IEAS#75
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wrote:

"Trust no one." Molder
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writes:

They don't trust us? WE don't trust THEM.
...government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.
Too late Abe :-(
--
Bob Kaplow NAR # 18L >>> To reply, there's no internet on Mars (yet)! <<<
Kaplow Klips & Baffle: http://nira-rocketry.org/Document/MayJun00.pdf
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On Tue, 28 Nov 2006 13:41:13 -0600, Alex Mericas

Ever hear of the 5th amendment? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_Amendment_to_the_United_States_Constitution
That's why the gubment can't trust anyone. Its also one of the top ten of their favorite ones to ignore.
You may also want to investigate the meaning of ;-)
Phil
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Where in our government's mandate is maintain trust in the citizenry? I do believe you have it backwards, as the government should strive to maintain the trust OF it's citizenry.
--
Tweak

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Tweak wrote:

Trust is earned. I would be the first to agree that our Government has not earned my trust or the trust of the voting public. The recent Congressional elections reflect that. And I'll keep voting against incumbents until I find one that earns my trust.
In general the hobby has shown that we can be trusted to follow guidelines without the need for strict enforcement. If we regularly exceeded our waivers, for example, how long do you think the FAA would tolerate it? I know, Bob is going to cite cases were waivers were knowingly exceeded. As a rule, however, waivers limits are respected. That trust keeps us on good terms with the FAA.
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