3D Scanning and Prototyping

3D scanning is more for reverse engineering, right? There's a product called RevWorlds that is intergreted with S/W. 3D Prototyping has several options. Which region are you in?

Matt Lorono

I'm mostly interested in hearing from users who have purchased these systems, and how they feel about their decisions and what they would do different, as well as recommendations be it positive or negative.

--Matt Schroeder

Let me clarify this;

I would like to hear from anyone about any 3D scanner or any 3D prototyper they have purchased.

Finding anything from end users that's not on the manufacturer's website has been difficult.

Thanks.

--Matt Schroeder

We have the Dimension SST machine and are pretty happy with it. We wanted parts that were fairly robust, so we picked an FDM machine, rather than SLA or Z-Corp's system. Even though the parts are ABS, they are not nearly as strong as machined or molded ABS, but they are usually strong enough for what we need. Small details are a problem, so if you want something less than .06" or .08" in diameter it is going to be very weak and may not work out. We've also seen that parts get weaker with age. I think this may have to do with our not rinsing them well enough, so that leftover solution that dissolves the support structure attacks the ABS. Cleaning the parts is moderately messy. We do it in a lab environment, not the office, although the FDM machine itself is quite happy in the office.Unless the part has small, fragile features with support structure around them, I try to remove as much support material as I can by hand and it tends to fly all over. Transferring the pallets and parts from the cleaning tank to the rinsing tank and then into the drying racks tracks water around and the cleaning solution is highly alkaline. After you've made enough parts you have to dump the cleaning solution and put in a new batch which can also be a little messy if you're not careful.

Now that I've listed all of the bad parts, it sounds pretty painful, but we wouldn't give it up for love or money, at least not until somebody comes up with a better system.

We looked into buying a scanner and backed off. They are still pretty expensive and limited in accuracy (around +/-.002" or more). We can get a scan done by GKS for around $500, so buying our own didn't make much sense.

Jerry Steiger

Thanks Jerry, that's good information.

I'm looking at the dimension as well as Zcorp currently. I was always under the assumption (wrong) that Zcorp's unit was FDM like Dimensions. It's powder based, and apparently has more than twice the Z axis resolution of the Dimension units. That impresses me quite a lot for two reasons. 1) the surfaces will not have the "caulk gun" patterns on them and 2) the changes in contour levels should run smoother I would think. I have yet to compare samples of the Zcorp unit to the Dimension machines that we had reviewed a long while back.

Thanks again for the information.

Also-- Zcorp sells a scanner, handheld, that apparently will do resolutions tight enough for part inspection. Something like a few microns.

I'm still interested in more information if anyone has any more input, please feel free to reply.

--Matt

The Zcorp does much finer detail and is quite fast, but the parts as they come out of the machine are extremely fragile. You have to infiltrate them to get much mechanical strength. They have some flexible infiltration materials, but the stiff ones are very brittle. This is based on parts I saw at least a year ago, so things might have changed.

As I recall, the earlier version is only good to +/-.004" (100 microns). I think the newer (and more expensive) one is +/-.0016" (40 microns). That was good enough for a lot of what we would like to do, but not all, so I didn't check into it any further.

Jerry Steiger

We use several 3d scanners, I would definitely recommend the Minolta Vivid 9i. The resolution is adequate for the price range ($50,000), but what sets it apart is it's portability. I travel with the unit extensively and find it to be quite manageable. Higher resolution devices tend to be less "portable" and quite a bit more expensive. I have demo'd similarly priced scanners which are portable, however, they lack in resolution. Most of the data we collect is for in house CNC carving, we shop out all or our rapid prototyping. I have had many parts manufactured with the Zcorp unit, the material is not fantastic, however, the price is great. The scanners they offer have small work envelopes which I would find to be limiting. There is no advantage to using a single manufacturer for both the scanner and the printer (data is data), and in fact would tend towards a manufacturer that is focussed on a single product. I would be happy to discuss furter.

I will be doing a 3D scanning on the cheap at SolidWorks world on Mon at 2:45. If you cant be there investigate

this is one outstaning value for the dollar

Ben

p.s. after SWW I will be posting the presentation online in video format

The scanners Zcorp has are quite a bit more expensive compared to say the unit from Nextengine, but I think deservedly so because they are handheld and pretty obviously have more resolution...maybe. While I could see us using a handheld unit more, for everything from reverse engineering to scanning existing machinery to retrofit machine guarding etc. the cost of the Zcorp unit I think forces us to look harder at the Nextengine. Especially since it seems like soon there might be a revolutionary leap in price versus technology.

Thanks for the information all. I'm certainly interested in hearing from others as well.

--Matt Schroeder

On Jan 15, 8:16 am, snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote: Most of the data we collect is for in house

Good to know--thanks for the input!

--Matt Schroeder

Ben, I will be at SolidWorks World, and I was looking through the seminars again yesterday and saw that you will be doing Laser scanning on the cheap. Unfortunately I can't change my original seminars chosen, but maybe I can stop in anyway.

What sort of resolution are you getting out of the setup I wonder?

Also, those with 3d scanners that output to STL, I get SolidWorks telling me that the STL has too many surfaces to import in any other format of STL than graphical representation, which is useless in SolidWorks.

Any tips?

--Matt Schroeder

We have a Dimension BST and it has been reliable and very useful. This model does not have the dissolving support structure, and every time I have to peel the support off I think we should have gone with the SST. The money we saved by not buying the tank was eaten up quickly by the time it takes to remove the support from certain models. If you do a lot of small blind holes for fasteners, you might want to consider the SST because you will be drilling out the support structure. Not a huge deal, but it is something to consider if your parts have many blind holes. If you do venting or air holes, I would definitely consider an SST because if the parts aren't oriented correctly the support will wrap around the vents and be impossible to remove. Mostly it depends on how complicated the parts are, and I have learned to sometimes make the parts in two or more pieces and orient the build so there is not so much structure to remove.

Our parts also seem to get weaker with age, so I don't think it is completely the fault of the alkaline solution used to remove the structure on the SST machines. Our VAR did give us a very helpful suggestion - He recommended that we briefly dip the parts in acetone to sort of weld the layers together. That would be a fairly big tank of acetone, so I just paint it on with an old paintbrush. I do one side, let it dry, and then do the other (because of the stickiness). We use prototypes for testing, initial UL approval of design, etc. They are fairly tough and overall we are pleased with the machine. It has needed a few adjustments, but nothing major has gone wrong.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

Debbie snipped-for-privacy@progressivedyn.com

Check out Rapidform.

Their XOR software allows you to build native parametric Solidworks models from scan data. Rapidform is directly compaitble with many scanners like our Konica Minolta VIVID 9i too.

Jim - Konica Minolta