Attn: local hobby stores. Please earn my business

He's probably glad you came along and bought the track. If he does not specialize in N scale and wanted to get rid of it why would he restock the merchandise if he cannot turn it few times a year?

Sounds like the store does not specialize in N Scale. With so many sku's in all the scales very few shops can afford to stock a lot of all scales, or even a lot of most scales.

What a retailer pays for an item has nothing to do whatsoever with what it should sell for - as long as it is not above the retail price. If your friend was concerned about price (not what the retailer paid for the item) he should have the research in advance for the lowest cost source.

If he was concerned about price he should have went online to order it.

Perhaps your expectations of the ability of hobby shop employees to know about every aspect of the hobby are too great.

Most hobby shop owners get into the business because it is an extention of their personal interest in the hobby.

And price according to your opening paraghraph.

I don't think that anybody here needs to be acquainted with "real life". We all live it, job insecurity, rising health care costs, housing costs that are escalating faster than the rate of inflation by a huge multiplier etc.

I'm forever amazed how some current and former hobbyshop owners feel that just their presence in an area should guarantee them a healthy living, and cry the blues when their customers for some reason feel the need to maximize the purchasing value of their hobby dollar.

Wake up, this is 2003, and a large percentage of the population has been ravaged by competition. Why should hobby shops be any different?

If a brick and mortar store goes out of business, it probably deserved to. regards, Jerry Zeman

Well, look at it this way: you don't have to paint the other three sides!

You make a good point here. All of American business is being ravaged by consumer power. Cutthroat price competition is the norm, everywhere you look. There are giant segment-killing businesses (or in the case of Wal-mart, entire-town-killing) putting everybody out of business AND demanding transfer of all the value in the businesses that supply them (or consume from them, in the case of the now-consolidated oil companies).

I live in a small town, so there's no hope that I'll ever see an enjoyable LHS. I can only guess what it offers. I think most of us would pay 10% over trainworld just to come in and say hello. A good number would pay 20% more to see before we buy. If it's any more than that, the LHS is going to have to be a real pleasure to visit.

I'm no expert at all. But here's some of my crap list. Almost every thing that's not Steam or narrow gauge. Most everything that's Athearn. Most everything that's Bachmann except Spectrum Steam. Most every thing IHC. Most everything that's Life Like except P2K steam and some car kits. My P2K

If they have anything I can even remotely consider needed, I am glad to. I try to make sure they know what I need, so that they can order it if they want. As I said in my letter, I am willing to pay a premium for service, the amount depending on the kind of service.

For example, I usually pick up at least a little rolling stock on each trip, as there is no harm in having some around if I want to run a different period than the line models.

Scott

I realize I neglected to supply my location. I am in California, near Irvine. I have not tried every store near me, but have hit a surprising number.

Scott

Sure, and for every person like you (and I don't doubt your intentions) there are 20 who demand the same high level of selection and service so they can browse for three hours deciding what to order from Standard Hobby.

=>Sure, and for every person like you (and I don't doubt your =>intentions) there are 20 who demand the same high level of selection =>and service so they can browse for three hours deciding what to order =>from Standard Hobby.

Yes, and in the trade publications, this is a perennial complaint. One store told of a customer who expressed interest in an item. When it came he said, "Thanks, now I know what it's like, I can order it from [discount mail-order]. Your price is too high." !!!!

The other complaint is that many mail-order discount operations are either owned by or are the retail segment of a distributor -- which means the distributor competes with his own customers.

The fact is (and I've said this before, ad nauseam), many discount mail-order shops sell to retail customers at standard wholesale discounts, plus s&H (plus a restocking charge for returned merchandise.) IOW, the distributor gets his cut whether he sells to a hobbhy shop or to a retail customer.

Many customers believe that they should be able to get full retail service for a discount price. There are enough of these around that the existence of the local full service hobby shop is threatened.

=>I'm no expert at all. But here's some of my crap list. Almost every thing =>that's not Steam or narrow gauge. Most everything that's Athearn. Most =>everything that's Bachmann except Spectrum Steam. Most every thing IHC. Most =>everything that's Life Like except P2K steam and some car kits. My P2K =>0-8-0. All most everything Atlas. Almost everything MDC. Everything that's =>tin plate. Almost all plastic structure kits. Just about all manufactured =>turnouts. MR's editorial column. Rice's zero tangent 0-4-0 challenging track =>plans. My work bench or at least what's covering it and my present unpainted =>back drop. Every hobby shop in the DFW area except Discount trains. Bruce.

Gee, Bruce, it's a wonder you can find a reason to go on breathing.

Well Wolf I've got Discount Trains not too far away. I enjoy scratchbuilding structures. There are many nice steam and narrow gauge loco's and kits out there. There are some fine craftsman kits available. I fix my turnouts so that they function and perform like they should have right out of the box. I can always clean up my work bench and find out what all I've been working on all this time. And my back drop will go from a masonite brown sky to a beautiful Texas blue sooner or later. Then I also have a beautiful wife, daughter and son, my ever faithful lab, six good horses and some new boots. So life is good.

manufactured

=>Then I also have a beautiful wife, =>daughter and son, my ever faithful lab, six good horses and some new boots. =>So life is good.

AHA!

I knew there was _real_ reason... :-)

Especially the boots. :-)

Its a problem. I go to my local full service hobby retailer but all I usually buy is a few Kadee couplers, a bottle of paint, some rail joiners, and maybe Model Railroader. He isn't going to get rich off my business. But I'll miss him when he folds and I have to order even nit noy little bits and pieces over the internet.

David J. Starr

Brian, Being in business myself, I can assure you I don't need a reality check.

Brick and mortar shops DO have overhead, however, so do the discount mail order retailers. Their magazine advertising costs may even be higher than a bick and mortar's rent/mortgage.

The BIG discounters are buying at warehouse distributor prices direct from the manufacturers and sell DIRECT to retail at drasticly reduced prices.

Unfair??????? Probably, but the manufacturers control the game. It is the manufacturers that create the problem for the hobby shop, not the end user/buyer.

I'll bet you shop for bargains yourself when you are making non-railroad related items.

I'm not trying to be a wiseass. Just making a point. As a business owner myself, I always try to determine *why* I like some stores and not others when I go shopping. Sometimes I learn things that can be utilized in my own business. After all, we are all consumers, and as a result, we are all somebody's customer. Doug Doug

The hobby shop is not as significant a source for hobby products as it once was. I remember when hobby shops were full service places where you could get "professional" hobby advice. I even remember when some shops had employees wear bowling type shirts with the employees name and the hobby shop name on it. What was the alternatives back then (50's & 60's)? There were no train shows, no major mail order houses, and no internet. The hobby business is more competetive and the consumer is more sensitive to price. 40 years ago there was a quarter of the model making companies as there is today and selection was limited to mostly craftsman kits. I do not know what the solution is for hobby shops but I do know it is barley more than a break even business for most shops. Today a lot of guys who start hobby shops like the hobby, have some extra cash, and are looking to do something they think they'll like.

With so many other places to buy it is natural the number of hobby shops will start to shrink.

Sal

Gotta have good kicks if you're a Texan!

Jay CNS&M Wireheads of the world, unite!

My experience with "hobby stores" as opposed to model train stores hasn't been all that positive.

Perhaps I've visited a non-representivie example of the former, but those I've visited don't view model trains as a primary area. They'd be good places for R/C cars, and possibly R/C planes, but not trains.

Model train stores are a different matter. Unfortunately, I've long since given up on having a local store keep current N scale items. Thus, I use one that's on the opposite side of the country. It is, however, a real store with a substantial mail order business--mostly N scale.

Two stores get the majority of my O business. One is a local store that I generally visit every week or so. I buy stuff there. I don't just visit to see what something looks like and then order it elsewhere. They, too, have an internet site. The other is half the continent away, but also is a real store.

My primary point is that many mail order sources are also real stores. I suspect that this helps them know their products and is probably one of the reasons they're able to provide a level of service that encourages me to be their customer.

Carl He>The hobby shop is not as significant a source for hobby products as it

-- Carl Heinz - snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net

I think of it as a "tax" to keep my LHS in business so I _can_ see stuff before I buy it mail order (if I ever do; haven't yet).

I grew up in Lake County, IL, and had one train shop within 20 miles (not counting Kenosha County). Now there are at least 3 in Lake County and two that I know of in Kenosha. In other words, living where I do now, I have 6 shops within about 12 miles. I _like_ having that many shops around, so I spend my dollars at the closest one for most items. Another has old mags and a junk drawer. Another sells ballast by the gallon jug... They each have their uses and I want to keep each one around for different reasons.

Jay CNS&M Wireheads of the world, unite!

And, uh, you load up on it, eh?