Anybody tried DCC and went back to DC?

And then back again, and back again and back again ...

The club layout alternates between DC & DCC operations. One Friday it is DC the next it is DCC. We rotate the schedule for shows as well.

Paul

You got me Paul. :-P I meant that someone switched to DCC from DC and then back to DC more-or-less permanently for some reason.

My local N-Trak club does something similar to what you've described. Since everything is modular (including wiring), we usually assign one of the three tracks to DCC while others are DC. That way we keep most of the members happy.

Peteski

I knew what you meant. I can't imagine giving up DCC. I still operate on DC layouts but, they all seem to require a lot of attention to the mechanics of how the layout works and less on the operation of the railway.

It's definately a compromise. Partly because we have members who will not convert (some because of $$ but, there is an assortment of reasons) and partly because there are some engines that are too problematic to convert.

Paul

"Peter W." wrote in news:1156143512.648525.197930 @i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com:

I did.

I went back to DC for a couple of reasons:

1. Cost. I run almost exclusively with multiple unit trains with center motor cars. To DCC-ify a complete unit would require 3 decoders - ouch.

1. Installation. I work in N scale, and there's not a heck of a lot of room to install decoders, never mind getting ones that will fit, plus the models of my prototype aren' exactly "DCC-friendly" or even "DCC-compatible"

2. Too many features. I found out I didn't need DCC to run the layout I really wanted (single track point to loop) and most of the things in DCC were well beyond both my comprehension or willingness to learn about.

My model railway is ALL about driving trains, no mindlessly orbiting trains with nobody in control. My trains set out and pick up blocks of cars, a move that in many cases requires the use of two locomotives, one working the head end and one the rear, both at the same time.

Perhaps you're correct for a roundy-go-roundy but that's not, in my book, operation. It's at best, running trains, at worst, playing with toy trains. With protypical operation, what happens at stations and yards where it's often required to have two locomotives in the same block at the same time? Direct DC this is difficult to achieve without extra block, it's easy with DCC. See above regarding setting out and picking up blocks of cars.

You have a point here. I feel that most DCC throttles are needsly complex and control far too many so called accessories. They seem to do thsi just because the technology permits it, not because of any real need. All I really need is a throttle that can be easily assigned to nay locomotive or consist, make the locomotive go forward, backwards and be able to turn on, dim or turn off the headlights. I don't need anything else.

-- Cheers

Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway

Frank,

your pregnature {is that what you call a top-posted "signature" :-) } is just crazy. It makes reading your messages a real chore. I'm already sick of people's long signatures and now you come up with a pre and post useful message garbage. Stop the insanity, please!

But I do agree with the useful parts of your postings.

JB and Greg: thanks for your honest answers. That's what I was looking for.

I'm into N-Scale but I don't own a layout. But I have the next best thing - I am part of a group of modelers who built (and now operate) a layout at my friend's house.

He started with DC in mind. I even came up with a nifty electronically controlled cab/block assignment logic. That was in the early 90s. But then DCC got popular (and small enough for N scale) somy friend decided to scrap the DC in favor of DCC. He is not regretting that move.

Besides that layout I regularely operate on about 10 other layouts (from 0 to N scale). Except for one 0 scale layout which started as Dynatrol, the others were all DC. Now, most are converted to DCC. I find it amazing how much easier and nicer they are to operate. It is funny how don't miss things like block/cab assignments (local or by dispatcher), running a block and losing control of your train, lashing up multiple locos and other similar things. DCC just makes it so easy, you don't even think about any of those extra non-prototypical things which had to be done on DC layouts.

Frank is right, DCC can be as hard or easy as you make it yourself. There is no need to fully utilize all the features. Nobody on DCC layouts I visit utilizes all the DCC functionality.

And the current decoders are amazingly small and inexpensive.

One negative is the learning curve for each DCC control system. They are all different enough to cause some grief. I find Digitrax and NCR to be most complex and Easy-DCC the simplest. Those are the ones I deal with.

But if you prefer DC, that is your choice and I will not say that it is a bad one. Knowing what I now know, I would not even consider going back to DC unless it was a simple continous loop playout.

Peteski

Roger, this is exactly what EasyDCC is all about. I've been using it since it was originally placed on the market.

Simple no-frill throttles and pretty easy to use programing station. Wired throttles are very simple and the older wireless ones are quite simple too. And the speed control know is a real potentiometer, not some endlesly spinning encoder. You can drive your trains without confusion as to which button to push next.

No, I don't work for CVP nor I'm related to them any way - just a happy user.

This is getting OT for this thread, so I better stop. :-) Peteski

A center motor car refers to the power car in a multiple car passenger train. These are usually models of Japanese, or European, passenger trains that do not have a separate locomotive. Most of these models are made by Kato, Tomix and Micro Ace. These is very little space, if any, for adding a decoder to the power car.

I also complained early in the thread about not being able to fit decoders in my locomotives. I don't know about the JP/NL, but the era I model is 1835 to the present. Yes, I have N-scale models covering the entire period.

I wondered how long it would be before you started posting this nonsensical bullshit again.

As you have been told *REPEATEDLY*, that is not always the case. How many times do you need to be reminded that the operating rules for German railways are not the same as those for other systems in other countries, the USA in particular? How many more times are you going to argue the toss with knowledgable people who run trains for a living???

I wondered how long it would be before you started posting this nonsensical bullshit again.

As you have been told *REPEATEDLY*, that is not always the case. Even under the German operating rules and procedures there is provision for more than one train in a block.

How many times do you need to be reminded that the operating rules for German railways are not the same as those for other systems in other countries, the USA in particular? How many more times are you going to argue the toss with knowledgable people who run trains for a living???

Repetitiously redundant.

Roger, you're wasting your time trying to get Greg to understand and acknowledge your point. He has a passing acquaintance with German safeworking, and mistakenly assumes that all railways throughout the world operate in the same way as his prototype. In his myopic view,

Cheers,

Mark.

Yes, I went back. I run a model railway, not individual slot cars on rails. ie the layout is not about driving individual trains around tracks but about numerous trains operating at once to give an impression of the way _railways_ operate.

As railways operate by block, with only one train per block, I find there is little need to operate two trains per block so the added expense of DCC is not IMHO justified.

From reading assorted newsgroups, my impression is that DCC is almost a separate hobby from model railways.

Regards, Greg.P.

"Frank A. Rosenbaum" wrote in news:FOLGg.145 $ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe03.lga:

My chosen prototype is Japanese multiple unit trains. (Specifically, diesel multiple units of the northernmost island) This means there is no dedicated locomotive, but each car has its own drive train and is, effectively, self-propelled with the entire system linked to the controls in the engineer's cab. Well, ha'ts how the protottype does it. In the models, there's usually one motored car, placed towards the center of the formation. In a 7-car train, the motor car is typically the third or fourth car (this helps with running both ways without too many problems)

I'm running mostly new models. My chosen era is modern day, but the room problem remains. Given that most cars have large windows and full interiors, hiding a decoder can be next to impossible.

Actually no. I'm building my layout in easily transported modules using sectional track (by Tomix, Japanese trains on Japanese track!!) -- it's not that there isn't anything, but it's beyond my enjoyment level to install such things. I like the manual approach too much to automate things.

Of course, I know this will come back to haunt me later, but for now I'm happy with my choices.

Oh - layout in progress:

"Greg.P." wrote in news:ecigf6$bmf$ snipped-for-privacy@lust.ihug.co.nz:

Handbrake please!

Name me a control system that doesn't.

Because DCC is an open system with described standards -- this means that multiple manufacturers can all add components to a common system. This is typically good for the customer, who gets to choose what he wants. Closed/propietary systems have the disadvantage that theey either limit you to equipment from that manufacturer, or worse, if said producer goes under, you're out of luck - or in deep trouble.

Is the system limited or your view of it ? There was a famous programmer once, who said that "Unix will be many things to many people, but it will never be everything to everyone" -- he was right.

Just the same, DCC *and* block control *and* DC control and whatever other control system you pick - it will be many things to many people, but none of them will be everythign to everyone -- everyone makes the choice they consider to be best for them - some stick with DC because it's the simplest to wire and build, some go for DCC which offers train control independent of track position, some choose block control because it fits their prototype or their operating style better -- every system has its pro's and con's.

Personally, I've chosen DC, so laugh at me and ridicule me, I don't care. It was MY choice because I liked it best. That said, I do understand why people choose other systems, and I respect their choice, and their enthusiasm in trying to explain its virtues. But that does not give me right nor position to slag them off just because their choice isn't mine.

Peace.

"Greg.P."

But you wrote: -

"Yes, I went back. I run a model railway, not individual slot cars on rails. ie the layout is not about driving individual trains around tracks but about numerous trains operating at once to give an impression of the way _railways_ operate."

You're contradicting yourself. How can "not driving individual trains" and "mindlessly running trains" be the same? They are two entirely different things.

-- Cheers

Roger T.

Home of the Great Eastern Railway