Screeching Anna :(

www.infoweaver.net\online_life\anna
Just bought this loco (Anna) second-hand. Was told it is in "Good running order"...
However it screeches like a banshee..
In case I need to send it back I'd rather not start dismantling it.
Anyone have an idea what is causing the screeching?
It runs OK without any screeching at top speed but at low to mid it's as noisey as hell.
Sometimes stutters forward at low to mid speed also.
Made short video and wave file. Can be seen here:
www.infoweaver.net\online_life\anna
Thoughts appreciated.
Pete
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Pete skriver:

Flesichmann with the old motor.

Motor bearings needs lubrication, a tiny drop of oil. Remove the body, apply power to the loco and put a tiny drop of oil on each motor bearing. Then the noise stops.....

Yep, exactly the sound of missing lubrication...
Klaus
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Pete wrote: [...]

Your webpage causes Firefox to generate errors, and Windows closes it. What program did you use to create the web page????
As for the screeching: that almost always means a dry motor bearing. There's probably just enough old, oxidised lube that at high speeds the heat generated softens it a bit so that the screech disappears. Anyhow, don't run it when it screeches. Take off the body, and apply a very little light, plastic compatible oil to each motor bearing. Let it soak for a few seconds, then run the engine slowly to distribute the oil. If the screech persists, add a little more oil. Also add a heavier oil to the gears, and the light oil to the wheel bearings.
If you see a lot of greasy dried up gunk around the motor bearings or gears, the engine should be throughly cleaned before you relubricate.
HTH
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Wolf Kirchmeir skriver:

Funny, My Mozilla 1,7 works fine...
Klaus
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Klaus D. Mikkelsen wrote:

and my Thunderbird 1.5.0.4 worked fine also
Dave
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On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 10:51:12 -0400, Wolf Kirchmeir
Cheers folks.
Glad I asked before I went off moaning to the seller - I like the look of this little engine :o)
I'll give it a bit of lube and see how it goes.

Not sure why that happens. I don't like embeding windows media files but I used the absolute basic level of html possible to do what I needed. (I test on IE and Opera so should be sound..)
However. if you just want to look at the video it can be downloaded as divx direct here:
http://www.infoweaver.net/online_life/anna/black_anna_01_divx.avi (1MB)
Photo of this lovely little engine here:
http://www.infoweaver.net/online_life/anna/anna03a.jpg
Wave file here: www.infoweaver.net\online_life\anna\screeching_anna_01.wav (50KB)
Sorry for the crash :)
Pete
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Pete skriver:

Proberbly very well I have saved your "screeching"video for later use. Is it okay that i use it at my own webpage some time in the future?
I have plans for a "tips and tricks on repair of engines", but it is currently at hold....
Klaus
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Pete:
Anna's cute! :) Seems as though she screeches more in reverse... what is the drive like? Is it a vertical motor in the cab with a worm drive? If just lubing the bearings won't do it, check the motor end play. Too much can cause vibration and screeching -- a few shims between armature and thrust bearing can cure it. Excessive play can also cause the bucking you seem to be describing.
My Mantua Booster used to do this; in that case the bearings were just worn out. Shims helped it but didn't eliminate it completely.
Cordially yours: Gerard P. President, The Sparta Railroad
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snipped-for-privacy@gannon.edu skriver:

Typical Flesichmann, the "rundmotor"
http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/klaus/rundmotor.jpg
(from a german class 55, same drive)
Klaus
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Klaus D. Mikkelsen wrote:

Klaus:
Hmm. Das ist nicht ein Schneckenantrieb. :) And if I say any more in German I'll just get lost...
Well, if it's not a worm drive he shouldn't have the end-thrust problem..I'd check the end play anyhow, as the armature may be randomly vibrating back and forth. I'd also make sure the bearings aren't too worn out, and that the motor shaft isn't bent, and for good measure I'd look at the brushes. If lubrication makes the noise go away,of course, there's no need to check any of this.
Cordially yours: Gerard P.
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snipped-for-privacy@gannon.edu skriver:

You're right, das ist "rundmotor" as Fleschmann called (calls) it. I belive they still produce som loco's with it.

I can recommend the movie "Top Secret" for you :(http://imdb.com/title/tt0088286 /) Val Kilmer compliants that he's not so good at speaking the german language, wherafter Lucy Gutteridge answers "Thats okay I only know a lillte german too - he's sitting over there"

Lubrication makes the noise disappear. We have around 10-15 Flesichmann trains running at "my" model railroad (see first link in signature). When they needs lubrication they sound excatly like Pete's little Anna.
One drop of oil at the "bearing" made of "bronce" and the noise is gone.
Some of our Fleischmann's with the old "rundmotor": http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/VT614.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/E410.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/BR55.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/BR03.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/BR24.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/BR51.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/BR65.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/V216.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/V218.html http://www.modelbaneeuropa.hadsten.dk/ELB.html
Sorry the text is in Danish, you proberbly understand geman better than danish...
Klaus
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On 7 Jun 2006 12:28:21 -0700, snipped-for-privacy@gannon.edu wrote:
Gerard

I like her.. but I like the HOe narrow gauge stuff. Slightly similar look (eye of the beholder and all that..).

That's the one. Not enclosed and looks hardly any different to any other cheap DC motor.

After some messing around (this is my first Fleischmann and first fix job since I was a wee child) I got everything lubed up and it still screeched though ran a bit smoother..
... So I pulled the brushes (once I twigged they needed some brute force), stretched the springs slightly and cleaned and turned the carbon around (they were quite greasy and bitty \ gritty) and that for the moment seems to have done the job.
The spindle doesn't seem too wobbly and the brushes were at least 3mm long.. Guess I'll get a few new brushes just to be on the safe side.
It was quite fascinating (I'm a newbie :o) to do and damn frustrating trying to find one of the springs as it pinged off onto the floor....

I've still lots to learn about bearings and shims n stuff.
Cheers
Pete
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Pete skriver:

Worm drive ?
I'm surprised....
Klaus
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On Wed, 07 Jun 2006 19:22:14 +0200, "Klaus D. Mikkelsen"

Klaus,
You are very welcome to use anything except my identity :). If using the WMV then take a look at the source of the actual web page (its inside a frame redirect). It uses two methods for embedding. Both are needed for compatibility with IE and Opera (at least.)
Shame I have now seemed to have fixed Anna (see my other message) as I would have done you a better, sharper take..
I'll be taking her apart again tomorrow to clean up any excess oil. I'll take a picture of the motor and add it to the page with a scan of the service leaflet. (I'll let you know via this thread when it is up there.) You can take a copy of those too if you want as I probably won't leave the Anna page up for too long.
Pete
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Pete skriver:

I'm very gratefull....
In case you need service leaflets, Arnold has a great page (mainly european) http://waschzettel.huebsch.at
Klaus
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On Thu, 08 Jun 2006 00:29:19 +0200, "Klaus D. Mikkelsen"
Klaus

Not sure if the slightly updated page n pictures are of any help but use what you need.
http://www.infoweaver.net/online_life/anna

Think I'll need to brush up on my languages..
The Fleischmann stuff there also seems to be password protected :(
Pete
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Pete skriver:

Thanks
Everything is password protected, but send Arnold an e-mail to get a password...
Fleischmann has a great "service leaflet" service en their homepage...
Klaus
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Just a note: Arnold is a nice and helpful guy. So there is no problem if you send him an email. He had to password protect some of his site because of copyright problems with manufacturers.
Regards,
George
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Pete wrote:

[...]
[...]
That's probably it. I've unloaded MS's most recent Windows Media Player because it's DRM enabled. I use a couple of other media players instead. If that means I can't see DRM protected files, too bad for those who make them. I don't _need_ to see them, right?
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wrote:

I don't have the latest WMP 11 as it is for XP SP2 and I opted not to downgrade. :))
It was made by encoding from Motion JPEG (DV Camera) to DivX (I would normally use XVid but just for widest compatibility I used DivX) and from that to WMV (WMP Ver 9) using STOIK.
I would prefer to embed XVid but suspect even fewer people would see it.
I do quite a few little humorous vignette type videos but aimed at individuals.. Maybe if I do anything to share more generally I'll add the embedded WMV to a second page as an option and just downloadables on the first page.
Pete
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