SF Broadway-Limited 4-8-4

A feedwater pump is a possibility on the prototype (I'm no AT&SF expert by any means). Some looked vaguely like an air compressor. But, what's on the Broadway model is definitely an air compressor, apparently all hooked up to the water lines.

Dan Mitchell ==========

Good Grief! ... That sure DOES look like an air compressor! Now I *AM* confused. I did say I was no AT&SF expert, but I am familiar with a LOT of steam locos, and that's the strangest location for an air compressor I've ever seen! There must be some interesting reason for putting it there. The loco already has pumps in the usual location up front. Perhaps some AT&SF aficionado can enlighten us?

Dan Mitchell ==========

Me Too! I guess it helps prove there's a prototype for anything.

Though my comments on the ill-defined detail on this model still stand.

Dan Mitchell ==========

Oh Really? (=A9 Fox Spews) I thought it was Fireman Rush=20 Limbaugh's Oxycontin dispenser.

--=20 Steve Caple

It was Railroad Model Craftsman, as follows:

Nov 71, Part 1, Frames and Wheels Part 2??? (missing from my collection) Sept 72, Part 3, Valve Gear Feb 73, Part 4, Boilers I don't know if there were any other parts.

If you have part 2, I'll gladly exchange photocopies (please, no scans) of your mssing part(s) for it.

Also, in January 1961, MR ran a long article by Linn Westcott on "Detailing Kit Locomotives," which includes a mass of data plus info o how to make and attach the parts. I can photoopy that for you, if you like.

To email me, drop the e in the replyaddress

IIRC, the Bachmann Plus model was supposed to represent the 2900 class Northerns, which carried much of the same specs as the 5011 class 2-10-4's (above the frame). From what I can recall from Worley's book (which is on loan to a family member), the 3751 class Northerns are smaller than the 2900's, so there should be significant differences between the BLI and Botchmann models.

I'm not an SF aficionado, but maybe it was added as the train length increased, and the original pumps were unable to keep up with the demand for air. If this train ran in areas with heavy downgrades they might have needed it for brakeing.

One remained on the pilot deck adjacent to the feedwater heater pump, the other was mounted under the cab.< So what's really wrong with the detail is not the air compressor under the cab but the fact there are still two on the deck! This makes it better to simulate the other numbers????? Remove one on the deck for the 3751 but remove the third one under the cab for other numbers??

Now that brought a chuckle and then a screen cleaner.... :)

Oh Really? (© Fox Spews) I thought it was Fireman Rush Limbaugh's Oxycontin dispenser.

coarse and ill defined. Kind'a like 'shapeless lump no. 7, 'shapeless lump no. 8, etc. The old Bachmann Plus model has a better shell.<

One of the problems is the paint. It's so thick that it's adds probably

30/40 thousands to all the detail. If these engines could be stripped and repainted with a quality model paint I'm sure they would look better (one could also add lost wax casting for some of the detail). That said the detail is coarse but not horrible. I'd really like to see the shell without paint to make a fair comment. Also we have a pricing factor here, you want brass you pay the price of brass. The Bachmann shell molds were done years ago with all the pricing baggage that carries. I paid less than $255 for mine and for that money today with sound it's one hell of an engine. When I get an idea of what the 2-10-2s are going to look like I will order at least two, maybe more!

That may well be true. I was comparing the molding quality of the two shells, not their appropriateness for a particular loco. I won't again (and shouldn't have in the first place, as I've already proven) comment on the ACCURACY of the model.

And that's still a strange place for an air pump! :-( ... I've only seen similar on very small locos, narrow gauge ones, in the sub 20 ton sizes.

Still, as I've stated, I stand corrected on this loco's air pump location.

Dan Mitchell ==========

Possible, I suppose. Were they BUILT this way, or modified thus at a later date?

Some locos in heavy service, like ore haulers, did have three pumps. Someone else said that these AT&SF locos had only one pump up front, and a second under the cab. I noticed that the BLI loco has at least one pump in the front, but didn't really look to see if there was a second there. I was just looking at the left side, and that was confusing enough! :-(

Dan Mitchell ==========

Yes, but some of BLI's other shells are very nicely done. The paint surely does not help, either, but that's the only cause of the 'mushy' detail on this model. Look at the superheater access hatch clamps, washout plugs, etc. And, considering the built in DCC and sound, it may well be a reasonable price ... though their own better-done models are their own competition here. The PRR M-1 suffered from some of the same problems, but not to this degree. My real point was the variation in quality from one of BLI's models to the next.

Dan Mitchell ==========

There are many publications that cover this topic. Do you want the basics, intended for the lay audience, or highly technical reference works?

Three very useful publications are as follows.

"The Steam Locomotive In America, Its Development in the Twentieth Century."

Alfred W. Bruce, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc. 1952

An excellent overview of the topic, reasonably technical, but not so much as to discourage the lay reader. Bruce discusses general development, basic design elements, and the development of individual types. Illustrated with builders photos and many diagrams, this is a good introduction to steam loco design.

"The 1947 Locomotive Cyclopedia Of American Practice, 13th Edition."

Simmons-Boardman Publishing Corporation, 1947.

1418 pages on every conceivable aspect of steam loco design and construction, from entire locos right down to nuts, bolts and washers. The book is divided into 20 sections, dealing with boilers, running gear, and appliances, etc. There are advertisements from builders and suppliers, a comprehensive glossary, and AAR standards/specifications. They're written for technically-literate railroaders, but are a goldmine of information.

The first edition was published in 1906, the thirteenth was the last to feature American-built steam for the domestic US market. If you can get your hands on one of these, you'll never regret it.

"Guide to North American Steam Locomotives"

George H. Drury, Kalmbach Books, 1993.

This is a concise reference book written specifically for modellers and enthusiasts, in the familiar Kalmbach style. It is ideally suited to the newbie, or someone whose interest does not extend to techical minutae. Well illustrated with photographs and drawings, it features roster for most US class 1 roads, and descriptions of individual locomotive types.

Other useful books are the instruction pamphlets published by the Westinghouse Air Brake Co, and other specialty suppliers, and the engineer's catechisms published by individual railroads.

Well, I haven't seen the model, so I don't know whether BLI have modelled two compressors on the deck, or only one, and the other part is meant to represent the feedwater heater pump. But to judge by the photos on their website, they to have modelled the feedwater pump in it's proper location on the pilot deck. Perhaps someone who owns one, or has seen one can comment?

All 14 engines in the 3751 were rebuilt by Santa Fe's Albuquerque shops between 1939 and 1941. All featured the compressor under the cab after this rebuild.

I need to check and confirm this, but I recall seeing reference to an ICC requirement for locomotives over a certain weight on drivers to have two air compressors.

And for the young people interested in the subject (passable read for adults, but definitely a bit juvenile as literature) there is "Superpower: The Making of a Steam Locomotive" by David Weitzman (a story of the ancestor of those great NKP Berks). Amazon says the reading level is 4 to 8 - perhaps a bit low, unless the 4 year old is pretty bright, maybe more like 6 to 12, and at the lower end shoud be read TO the child.

And that's always a worthwhile endeavor.

on their website, they to have modeled the feedwater pump in it's proper location on the pilot deck. Perhaps someone who owns one, or has seen one can comment?< As each comment is made I put my 3x's on and check my model. It has two pumps on the deck. The airpumps appear to be the same casting. The old Cal-Scale Worthington set (190-270) is still available from Bowser.

OK just took the boiler off to lube. The Worthington pump is on the deck just as it's supposed to be. It's hard to see with the boiler on.