That is, of course, a air pump. The engine is modeled as 3751 looks today. Is there an air pump in that location today? I have seen airpumps mounted in that location before (can't remember which engines). It's not abnormal for an engine to have three but??????????
SF Broadway-Limited 4-8-4
That is, of course, a air pump. The engine is modeled as 3751 looks today. Is there an air pump in that location today? I have seen airpumps mounted in that location before (can't remember which engines). It's not abnormal for an engine to have three but??????????
> That is, of course, a air pump. The engine is modeled as 3751 looks > today. Is there an air pump in that location today? I have seen > airpumps mounted in that location before (can't remember which > engines). It's not abnormal for an engine to have three but?????????? > The engines as rebuilt had only two compressors, according to Worley. One remained on the pilot deck adjacent to the feedwater heater pump, the other was mounted under the cab.
One remained on the pilot deck adjacent to the feedwater heater pump, the other was mounted under the cab.< So what's really wrong with the detail is not the air compressor under the cab but the fact there are still two on the deck<VBG>! This makes it better to simulate the other numbers????? Remove one on the deck for the 3751 but remove the third one under the cab for other numbers??
Jon Miller wrote:
> So what's really wrong with the detail is not the air compressor under > the cab but the fact there are still two on the deck<VBG>!
Well, I haven't seen the model, so I don't know whether BLI have modelled two compressors on the deck, or only one, and the other part is meant to represent the feedwater heater pump. But to judge by the photos on their website, they <appear> to have modelled the feedwater pump in it's proper location on the pilot deck. Perhaps someone who owns one, or has seen one can comment?
> This makes it better to simulate the other numbers????? Remove one on > the deck for the 3751 but remove the third one under the cab for other > numbers??
All 14 engines in the 3751 <class> were rebuilt by Santa Fe's Albuquerque shops between 1939 and 1941. All featured the compressor under the cab after this rebuild.
> So what's really wrong with the detail is not the air compressor under > the cab but the fact there are still two on the deck<VBG>!
Well, I haven't seen the model, so I don't know whether BLI have modelled two compressors on the deck, or only one, and the other part is meant to represent the feedwater heater pump. But to judge by the photos on their website, they <appear> to have modelled the feedwater pump in it's proper location on the pilot deck. Perhaps someone who owns one, or has seen one can comment?
> This makes it better to simulate the other numbers????? Remove one on > the deck for the 3751 but remove the third one under the cab for other > numbers??
All 14 engines in the 3751 <class> were rebuilt by Santa Fe's Albuquerque shops between 1939 and 1941. All featured the compressor under the cab after this rebuild.
on their website, they <appear> to have modeled the feedwater pump in it's proper location on the pilot deck. Perhaps someone who owns one, or has seen one can comment?< As each comment is made I put my 3x's on and check my model. It has two pumps on the deck. The airpumps appear to be the same casting. The old Cal-Scale Worthington set (190-270) is still available from Bowser.
OK just took the boiler off to lube. The Worthington pump is on the
deck just as it's supposed to be. It's hard to see with the boiler on.
Christian wrote:
Good Grief! ... That sure DOES look like an air compressor! Now I *AM* confused. I did say I was no AT&SF expert, but I am familiar with a LOT of steam locos, and that's the strangest location for an air compressor I've ever seen! There must be some interesting reason for putting it there. The loco already has pumps in the usual location up front. Perhaps some AT&SF aficionado can enlighten us?
Dan Mitchell =========
Good Grief! ... That sure DOES look like an air compressor! Now I *AM* confused. I did say I was no AT&SF expert, but I am familiar with a LOT of steam locos, and that's the strangest location for an air compressor I've ever seen! There must be some interesting reason for putting it there. The loco already has pumps in the usual location up front. Perhaps some AT&SF aficionado can enlighten us?
Dan Mitchell =========
I'm not an SF aficionado, but maybe it was added as the train length
increased, and the original pumps were unable to keep up with the demand for
air. If this train ran in areas with heavy downgrades they might have needed
it for brakeing.
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"Frank A. Rosenbaum" wrote:
Possible, I suppose. Were they BUILT this way, or modified thus at a later date?
Some locos in heavy service, like ore haulers, did have three pumps. Someone else said that these AT&SF locos had only one pump up front, and a second under the cab. I noticed that the BLI loco has at least one pump in the front, but didn't really look to see if there was a second there. I was just looking at the left side, and that was confusing enough! :-(
Dan Mitchell =========
Possible, I suppose. Were they BUILT this way, or modified thus at a later date?
Some locos in heavy service, like ore haulers, did have three pumps. Someone else said that these AT&SF locos had only one pump up front, and a second under the cab. I noticed that the BLI loco has at least one pump in the front, but didn't really look to see if there was a second there. I was just looking at the left side, and that was confusing enough! :-(
Dan Mitchell =========
Frank A. Rosenbaum wrote:
> I'm not an SF aficionado, but maybe it was added as the train length > increased, and the original pumps were unable to keep up with the > demand for air. If this train ran in areas with heavy downgrades they > might have needed it for brakeing.
I need to check and confirm this, but I recall seeing reference to an ICC requirement for locomotives over a certain weight on drivers to have two air compressors.
> I'm not an SF aficionado, but maybe it was added as the train length > increased, and the original pumps were unable to keep up with the > demand for air. If this train ran in areas with heavy downgrades they > might have needed it for brakeing.
I need to check and confirm this, but I recall seeing reference to an ICC requirement for locomotives over a certain weight on drivers to have two air compressors.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 10:36:04 -0400, "Daniel A. Mitchell"
Looks like a motorcycle to me...I should think Christian could tell the difference, what with him having all those bugs in his teeth...
Jeff Sc. Windblown, Ga.
Don't bother to reply via email...I've been JoeJobbed.
Looks like a motorcycle to me...I should think Christian could tell the difference, what with him having all those bugs in his teeth...
Jeff Sc. Windblown, Ga.
Don't bother to reply via email...I've been JoeJobbed.
SNIPS
I suspect that a cross
steam
scale
Way, way back when I had more hair, MR ran a series called "Basics of Steam". Being then younger and poorer, I am not at all sure that I ever did get all the issues of MR that covered the topic, and I have a gut feeling ( gut now bigger than when I had more hair --- it seems to be an inversely proportional relationship) that MR never concluded the series.
Anybody remember when (years/ months) the MR series ran?
Anybody have pointers to books about the subject -- how a steam locomotive operated? Basic 2 - 4 - 0 up to tender stoker coal fired behemoths?
Seems to me that there should be some good basic hobbyist affordable books out there, and a hell of a market if they are not out there.
Comments, suggestions?
Cites to steam theory books rte railroad locomotives ?
I suspect that a cross
steam
scale
Way, way back when I had more hair, MR ran a series called "Basics of Steam". Being then younger and poorer, I am not at all sure that I ever did get all the issues of MR that covered the topic, and I have a gut feeling ( gut now bigger than when I had more hair --- it seems to be an inversely proportional relationship) that MR never concluded the series.
Anybody remember when (years/ months) the MR series ran?
Anybody have pointers to books about the subject -- how a steam locomotive operated? Basic 2 - 4 - 0 up to tender stoker coal fired behemoths?
Seems to me that there should be some good basic hobbyist affordable books out there, and a hell of a market if they are not out there.
Comments, suggestions?
Cites to steam theory books rte railroad locomotives ?
SNIP
SNIP
Model Railroader Cycolpedia, Volume ((insert number here, there are 2, one for steam the other for diseasels)) has a basic discription of how a locomotive operated, what went where, what it did and why, and what all those pipes were for. Bill
SNIP
Model Railroader Cycolpedia, Volume ((insert number here, there are 2, one for steam the other for diseasels)) has a basic discription of how a locomotive operated, what went where, what it did and why, and what all those pipes were for. Bill
Jim McLaughlin wrote:
It was Railroad Model Craftsman, as follows:
Nov 71, Part 1, Frames and Wheels Part 2??? (missing from my collection) Sept 72, Part 3, Valve Gear Feb 73, Part 4, Boilers I don't know if there were any other parts.
If you have part 2, I'll gladly exchange photocopies (please, no scans) of your mssing part(s) for it.
Also, in January 1961, MR ran a long article by Linn Westcott on "Detailing Kit Locomotives," which includes a mass of data plus info o how to make and attach the parts. I can photoopy that for you, if you like.
To email me, drop the e in the replyaddress
It was Railroad Model Craftsman, as follows:
Nov 71, Part 1, Frames and Wheels Part 2??? (missing from my collection) Sept 72, Part 3, Valve Gear Feb 73, Part 4, Boilers I don't know if there were any other parts.
If you have part 2, I'll gladly exchange photocopies (please, no scans) of your mssing part(s) for it.
Also, in January 1961, MR ran a long article by Linn Westcott on "Detailing Kit Locomotives," which includes a mass of data plus info o how to make and attach the parts. I can photoopy that for you, if you like.
To email me, drop the e in the replyaddress
Jim McLaughlin wrote:
> Anybody have pointers to books about the subject -- how a steam > locomotive operated? Basic 2 - 4 - 0 up to tender stoker coal fired > behemoths?
There are many publications that cover this topic. Do you want the basics, intended for the lay audience, or highly technical reference works?
Three very useful publications are as follows.
"The Steam Locomotive In America, Its Development in the Twentieth Century."
Alfred W. Bruce, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc. 1952
An excellent overview of the topic, reasonably technical, but not so much as to discourage the lay reader. Bruce discusses general development, basic design elements, and the development of individual types. Illustrated with builders photos and many diagrams, this is a good introduction to steam loco design.
"The 1947 Locomotive Cyclopedia Of American Practice, 13th Edition."
Simmons-Boardman Publishing Corporation, 1947.
1418 pages on every conceivable aspect of steam loco design and construction, from entire locos right down to nuts, bolts and washers. The book is divided into 20 sections, dealing with boilers, running gear, and appliances, etc. There are advertisements from builders and suppliers, a comprehensive glossary, and AAR standards/specifications. They're written for technically-literate railroaders, but are a goldmine of information.
The first edition was published in 1906, the thirteenth was the last to feature American-built steam for the domestic US market. If you can get your hands on one of these, you'll never regret it.
"Guide to North American Steam Locomotives"
George H. Drury, Kalmbach Books, 1993.
This is a concise reference book written specifically for modellers and enthusiasts, in the familiar Kalmbach style. It is ideally suited to the newbie, or someone whose interest does not extend to techical minutae. Well illustrated with photographs and drawings, it features roster for most US class 1 roads, and descriptions of individual locomotive types.
Other useful books are the instruction pamphlets published by the Westinghouse Air Brake Co, and other specialty suppliers, and the engineer's catechisms published by individual railroads.
> Anybody have pointers to books about the subject -- how a steam > locomotive operated? Basic 2 - 4 - 0 up to tender stoker coal fired > behemoths?
There are many publications that cover this topic. Do you want the basics, intended for the lay audience, or highly technical reference works?
Three very useful publications are as follows.
"The Steam Locomotive In America, Its Development in the Twentieth Century."
Alfred W. Bruce, W.W. Norton & Company, Inc. 1952
An excellent overview of the topic, reasonably technical, but not so much as to discourage the lay reader. Bruce discusses general development, basic design elements, and the development of individual types. Illustrated with builders photos and many diagrams, this is a good introduction to steam loco design.
"The 1947 Locomotive Cyclopedia Of American Practice, 13th Edition."
Simmons-Boardman Publishing Corporation, 1947.
1418 pages on every conceivable aspect of steam loco design and construction, from entire locos right down to nuts, bolts and washers. The book is divided into 20 sections, dealing with boilers, running gear, and appliances, etc. There are advertisements from builders and suppliers, a comprehensive glossary, and AAR standards/specifications. They're written for technically-literate railroaders, but are a goldmine of information.
The first edition was published in 1906, the thirteenth was the last to feature American-built steam for the domestic US market. If you can get your hands on one of these, you'll never regret it.
"Guide to North American Steam Locomotives"
George H. Drury, Kalmbach Books, 1993.
This is a concise reference book written specifically for modellers and enthusiasts, in the familiar Kalmbach style. It is ideally suited to the newbie, or someone whose interest does not extend to techical minutae. Well illustrated with photographs and drawings, it features roster for most US class 1 roads, and descriptions of individual locomotive types.
Other useful books are the instruction pamphlets published by the Westinghouse Air Brake Co, and other specialty suppliers, and the engineer's catechisms published by individual railroads.
Jim McLaughlin wrote:
And for the young people interested in the subject (passable read for adults, but definitely a bit juvenile as literature) there is "Superpower: The Making of a Steam Locomotive" by David Weitzman (a story of the ancestor of those great NKP Berks). Amazon says the reading level is 4 to 8 - perhaps a bit low, unless the 4 year old is pretty bright, maybe more like 6 to 12, and at the lower end shoud be read TO the child.
And that's always a worthwhile endeavor.
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)
%
3Dnosim/ricksphotograpag/002-0198465-4042408>
And for the young people interested in the subject (passable read for adults, but definitely a bit juvenile as literature) there is "Superpower: The Making of a Steam Locomotive" by David Weitzman (a story of the ancestor of those great NKP Berks). Amazon says the reading level is 4 to 8 - perhaps a bit low, unless the 4 year old is pretty bright, maybe more like 6 to 12, and at the lower end shoud be read TO the child.
And that's always a worthwhile endeavor.
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)
%
3Dnosim/ricksphotograpag/002-0198465-4042408>
--
Steve Caple
Steve Caple
Steve Caple wrote:
>
> And for the young people interested in the subject (passable read for
> adults, but definitely a bit juvenile as literature) there is
> "Superpower: The Making of a Steam Locomotive" by David Weitzman (a
> story of the ancestor of those great NKP Berks). Amazon says the
> reading level is 4 to 8 - perhaps a bit low, unless the 4 year old is
> pretty bright, maybe more like 6 to 12, and at the lower end shoud be
> read TO the child.
Now there's a funny thing - I bought a copy for my father, who like me was very impressed by the exquisite illustrations featured in the book. But I don't think that either of us ever realised that it was intended as a <childrens> book!
But I would certainly agree that it's an excellent introduction to steam engines for younger readers.
Now there's a funny thing - I bought a copy for my father, who like me was very impressed by the exquisite illustrations featured in the book. But I don't think that either of us ever realised that it was intended as a <childrens> book!
But I would certainly agree that it's an excellent introduction to steam engines for younger readers.
Steve Caple wrote:
>
> And for the young people interested in the subject (passable read for
> adults, but definitely a bit juvenile as literature) there is
> "Superpower: The Making of a Steam Locomotive" by David Weitzman (a
> story of the ancestor of those great NKP Berks). Amazon says the
> reading level is 4 to 8 - perhaps a bit low, unless the 4 year old is
> pretty bright, maybe more like 6 to 12, and at the lower end shoud
> be read TO the child.
Now there's a funny thing - I bought a copy for my father, who like me was very impressed by the exquisite illustrations featured in the book. But I don't think that either of us ever realised that it was intended as a <childrens> book!
But I would certainly agree that it's an excellent introduction to steam engines for younger readers.
What I particularly liked about it was the emphasis on people - the human aspect of locomotive construction. The description of the various tradesmen and their craft stirred vivid recollections of my apprenticeship.
Now there's a funny thing - I bought a copy for my father, who like me was very impressed by the exquisite illustrations featured in the book. But I don't think that either of us ever realised that it was intended as a <childrens> book!
But I would certainly agree that it's an excellent introduction to steam engines for younger readers.
What I particularly liked about it was the emphasis on people - the human aspect of locomotive construction. The description of the various tradesmen and their craft stirred vivid recollections of my apprenticeship.
The tough part is, trying to find a clear enough picture of 3751 that shows exactly what it is the engine has hangin' down there. Since the 3751 class was modernized and rebuilt by ATSF with a different feedwater system than what many were delivered with, it's difficult to say what's where on the engine now ... barring, of course, good closeup photographs, accurate techinical drawings, or a personal looksee at the locomotive. The photo in the link another poster provided gives one of the best shots so far. From my rather limited prototype steam experience, it sure looks like an air pump to me.
But then, my experience is in coal-fired 2-8-0's, and not mainline oil burners... :-)
PEACHCREEK wrote:
> Flame War? Who said anything about a flame war? I suspect that a > cross compound air pump looks like a feedwater heater on a dark night > at three hundred paces in a heavy rain, but for anyone who knows a > little about steam locos it is a serious error. I will admit that > there are fewer and fewer people who know a bit about steam locos, > but I would hope that the manufacturers would know the difference. > After all, it is supposed to be scale model, or is it a toy?
Well, in this case the manufacturers got it right - the 3751 class as rebuilt carried an air compressor under the fireman's side of the cab.
> Flame War? Who said anything about a flame war? I suspect that a > cross compound air pump looks like a feedwater heater on a dark night > at three hundred paces in a heavy rain, but for anyone who knows a > little about steam locos it is a serious error. I will admit that > there are fewer and fewer people who know a bit about steam locos, > but I would hope that the manufacturers would know the difference. > After all, it is supposed to be scale model, or is it a toy?
Well, in this case the manufacturers got it right - the 3751 class as rebuilt carried an air compressor under the fireman's side of the cab.
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