Southern Pacific "Overnight Black" Scheme

Athearn has also done that paint scheme for the Overnighter Box cars. As I recall, the cars were part of a freight train that ran on the schedule that the Daylight trains ran on but at night.

-- Bob May Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less. Works every time it is tried!

As has MDC, both the black and the silver. It's one of those old standby schemes that everyone and his brother offered at one time or another.

Don

Thanks you guys.

Bob May made mention of a SP "Overnight" train that ran on a mirrored schedule to their daytime trains.

Might anyone know if the SP had a specific name for the evening freight train that consisted of these black, "Overnight" boxcars. Perhaps a name in the same league as the Pacific Fruit Express or the Super Chief.

Thanks So Much! Matt

2000

The Overnight (later the Coast Merchandise West and Coast Merchandise East) ran ahead of the Lark. The Lark was scheduled for 13 hours, 45 minutes between SF and LA, somewhat slower than the Daylight's 9 hours and 45 minutes. As near as I can tell the Lark gained on the Overnight so it was slightly slower. Still fast for a freight train.

Matt,

Those 'Overnight' boxcars were painted in several paint schemes(I know of at least the black ones and 'silver' ones). The SP also has some caboose in silver with some kind of TOFC lettering, IIRC. They may have run a solid train of those cars on an expedited schedule, but I suspect that a 'block' of those cars in an overnight freight may have been more typical. Maybe some SP modeler has the complete info on these cars and the service routes they may have been used on.

Jim Bernier

Matt & Kathleen Brennan wrote:

Matt,

The SP ran an expedited intermodal train in the 90's from Portland to California - it wa named the PCX - 'Pacific Coast Expediter'. This was run in competition to the trucks on I-5.....

Jim Bernier

Matt Brennan wrote:

Wasn't that the name of the train?

-- Bob May Losing weight is easy! If you ever want to lose weight, eat and drink less. Works every time it is tried!

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 15:59:11 UTC, Jim Bernier wrote: 2000

The several paint schemes are the two you mentioned. No others. The silver cabooses were steel cabooses that were designated for service on the trailer trains. There was a piggyback "Overnight". The cabooses could have been used on the regular "Overnight". Because of the speed of the train all cars had to be equipped with steel wheels. In the beginning days of the "Overnight" Espee didn't have any cabooses with steel wheels so a passenger coach was used as the caboose.

The "Overnights" were a solid train of "Overnight" cars, see the comment about steel wheels. The trains were typically about 20 cars in length pulled by one of Espee's 4-8-2s. They ran on the coast route between San Francisco and Los Angeles, the same route as the Daylights. There were a couple of bad grades on the route, principally the Cuesta grade between San Luis Obispo and Santa Margarita. Most of the route allowed relatively high speeds. The Daylight speed limit was 79 mph over much of the route. Looking at what schedules I could find it is unlikely that the "Overnight" ran at anything approaching that speed. It was able to travel the 486 railroad miles between SF and LA overnight, probably in about 14 hours.

Bob, you are quite correct. I received an e-mail from someone who said that the train was called the "Overnight". I saw an example of this train in the latest model railroader. It's a Z-scale layout. There's a Southern Pacific AB engine consist hauling a string of black, "Overnight" boxcars. It looks terrific. I had been searching for this specific car in HO scale a while ago. I was unable to locate any cars for sale [certainly not multiples]. This Z-scale image in MR rekindled my enthusiasm for this particular train.

Jim's information about the "PCX" is great. I really look forward to acquiring a handful of books on these wonderful railroad histories: the UP, the SP, the BN, and the Santa Fe. Hopefully, these books will be chalk full of color photographs. I am also intrigued by the silver "Overnight" paint scheme, that Jim mentioned, though the all black consist is my personal favorite for this particular train.

Many Thanks - Bob and Jim!!!

These are great facts to know. Thanks Ernie!

Might you [or anyone] know of a specific book that has detailed information about the SP, the "Overnight", and other historical information - preferably a book with color photographs. I am putting together a book, wish list. The Santa Fe, the PFE, and the REA are already targeted once my budget can afford these purchases.

Another quick question ...

What Southern Pacific engine(s) would be an appropriate choice to pull the "Overnight"?

Thanks! Matt

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 00:59:47 UTC, Matt & Kathleen Brennan wrote: 2000

AFAIK there is no specific book on the "Overnight" although there may be one. There are a lot of limited distribution books on Espee.

There is no single detailed book on the Espee. It is (was) a complex railroad. There are a number of books written by John Signor about various parts of the Espee such as the Coast route, Tehachapi, the Shasta route, Beaumont hill, etc. These are well written books with many pictures but you can run up quite a bill buying all of the books on Espee.

With your interest in PFE there is an outstanding book. It is called "Pacific Fruit Express" by Thompson, Church and Jones. It covers the history of PFE and its equipment and operations from early 1900 until the breakup in the 1980s. It also discusses earlier refrigerator operations. It is not a cheap book but it will provide many evenings of fascinating reading.

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 01:03:06 UTC, Matt & Kathleen Brennan wrote: 2000

Well, the classic motive power would be one of Espee's 4300 series

4-8-2s. Either GP9s or Black Widow Fs in the 50s.

These cars are available from English's Model Railroad Supply, distributed by Bowser.

The photos on the site look like plastic. I have a few kits from English's which are metal. Athearn sold their old '50s metal kit line to Menzies, which later sold it to English's. I can't seem to find the metal kits on the Bowser site. Too bad.

Rick Jones wrote: >>> These cars are available from English's Model Railroad Supply, distributed by Bowser. >>>

Thanks Rick.

>

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004 00:50:28 UTC, Matt & Kathleen Brennan wrote: 2000

Too much of a stretch. An AC could not maintain the speed. Not that one might not have been used in a pinch. There are pictures of a Daylight being pulled by an AC. The regular engine died and then the replacement died. The AC was all that was available.

Ernie Fisch wrote: >>> There are pictures of a Daylight being pulled by an AC. The regular engine died and then the >>> replacement died. The AC was all that was available.

I cannot believe this stroke of good luck. That's exactly what happened on our layout. Both diesels that were assigned to the "Overnight" have died. I'm sure we can replace them in time, but the AC will have to pinch hit until we can budget replacement diesels. ;-)

Matt, Maybe a Bachmann Spectrum SP 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain would work. Its not exactly like the SP 4-8-2 but not way out of line. They are nice looking heavy models and don't cost a whole lot. Bruce

Bruce Favinger wrote: >>> Maybe a Bachmann Spectrum SP 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain would work ... and don't cost a whole lot.

I was surprised to see that they cost $109.99 at TrainWorld. That's quite high. If that is the actual price, I would rather put that money aside until we can afford the new BLI Cab Forward. This would be a case where I would go with the Cab Forward to haul the "Overnight" and rely on the "oddball theory" where anything goes on certain occasions.

Our biggest challenge is doubling up and tripling, if possible, engine use [assignments] on our proposed layout. Our budget dictates that we maximize the use of each engine acquired. I just cannot afford to buy train specific engines. One area that has proven beneficial is buying two of the same design for consist building. It gives us immediate use of solo engines for shorter freight trains as well as the intended, two engine consist for the longer freight trains.

Bruce, thanks very much for the suggestion. The 4-8-2 Heavy Mountain would be perfect for this role. I have it on our possibility list should funds permit such a purchase down the road. I'd certainly enjoy using the correct engine if at all possible.