I was surprised to hear several strong threats over the PA system from the Meet Director at the TCA York show this past weekend about potential action (not sure what, but perhaps denying participation in future meets) against anyone with a table (dealer or individual) leaving before the official end of the meet at 2:00 PM Saturday. I can understand the need to offer a worthwhile experience to buyers in order to keep attendance up, but the policy seems very arbitrary - what if a dealer sells everything he brought before the closing: is he required to sit in front of an empty table? I wonder if part of this may be an ill-conceived reaction to the repercussions of York's change in schedule to start at noon Thursday instead or Friday morning to take sales away from the per-meet parking lot shows. I'm curious - do any other train shows have a Gestapo to police early departures of sellers? Geezer
On Sun, 22 Oct 2006 19:27:17 -0400, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and "Geezer" instead replied:
Imagine how the people who paid admission feel while dodging trolleys full of tables and display stuff while they try to browse the remaining vendors. There's more than just the poor dealers' needs to be met at a show.
```````` I agree with Howard 100 percent. Last spring I attended a the spring meet of a RR historical society of which I'm a member. Among the other activities at the meet is a scheduled time for a swap meet to be held. Now I generally bring an amount of cash which I may or may not spend, depending on what's available for sale. If there are any items I am specifically looking for I tend to look for them first, checking with all vendors to see who may have the best price. After I get the things I want, I stroll through again at a more leisurely pace looking at other things vendors have for sale, at which time I may pick up something else of interest, and I'll also note other items that I hadn't been particularly considering buying, but because I have some available funds left, I actually may end up buying.
Sometime within the half hour or so before the swap is scheduled to end, I may decide to go back and buy one or more of these items, as many times the sellers are eager to get rid of things and may be more conducive to selling at a lower than their normal price, just so they don't have as much to lug back home or because certain things they thought would/might sell at the show simply haven't and they would just prefer to get rid of them.
At the meet I mentioned at the start of my post I was doing just that. I had about forty five minutes or so left until the swap was scheduled to end, so I ended up out in the parking lot visiting with some other attendees. When I noticed that I had just under thirty minutes left before the end of the swap, I hurried back inside to try and pick up a couple of the items I had decided to get before the swap was supposed to finish up. When I walked in the door almost all of the tables were empty and the vendors and their wares were nowhere to be seen. The couple remaining were packing up and you couldn't get to them easily because the others leaving were blocking the aisles with their carts or their bodies while BS'ing with other people. Needless to say I was shocked and angered that with the better part of a 1/2 hour still left until the swap was scheduled to end, it was in reality over. I intend to bring this up to the organizers of the historical society sponsoring this meet prior to next spring's event, and won't hesitate to not participate if the situation isn't rectified at future meets.
On the flip side of this, a while back I had some things to thin out and rented a table at a local show to try and make a few $$ on them. According to the show flyer, it was scheduled to end at
4pm.
I was a bit surprised when I noticed some folks starting to pack up around 3:15pm. But was totally floored when the folks in charge of the show came around at 3:30pm to tell me I had to start packing up, as they had only rented the hall until 4pm. If they were still there after that time there would be extra charges, which would be passed on those who weren't packed up and gone by then.
Since some folks already seemed aware of this, and apparently didn't think it was a big deal, I suspect it's not all that uncommon a way of doing things. Which might explain why some folks are 'gun shy' about waiting until the actual announced closing time to pack up.
When I was a co-promoter of the Greenwich Train Meet in Greenwich CT. We asked the dealers to stay to the end. There was no penalty if they didn't. If a dealer is not doing well, they will pack and go much sooner than one who is. Now, a show that does what the show that Len went to is just plain wrong. I don't have first hand information but I had heard that the White Plains, NY show will not ask a dealer back if they left early.
Having attended a number of trade shows (unrelated to the hobby industry), I'll vouch that it is possible to generate tremendous goodwill at the end of the shows by dumping SWAG or discounting - sometimes in return for minor assistance in packing or even bringing in a sandwich or cup of coffee to "legitimize" the discount.
One major candy manufacturer rep. used to hand out samples at his booth throughout a show, a couple to a "customer." During the last hour, he dumped the rest of his stock, making sure the wives and kids of his best customers knew to come back at the beginning of his largesse. Another would schedule his big raffle to end about that time, bringing folks back for one last time, giving him the opportunity to be the exhibit best remembered.
Those who have been exhibitors at a number of shows, or are on a circuit, tend to get jaded and have a tendency to schedule flights back home that force a quick packup and trip to the airport. Cleanup and packing time is considered lost time.
IME, It is interesting to see the change in the attendees as a show progresses. The first flush seems to always be the typeA personalities, that want your complete attention for an extended period, invariably while other potential customers are waiting, and especially if you have something new and eye-catching. About two hours into a show, things begin to settle down and serious sales are made. By the third hour, eyes are glazing over and the serious comparison shoppers and bargain hunters are beginning to make their moves. Towards the end of the show, a lot depends on the promoter. Sometimes the floor will be opened up to people without tickets, which can bring a whole new group in, or if the floor remains open only to attendees, those coming in are often very goal oriented towards finishing their deals, and while racing to their particular booth of interest, would double-time walk by a nude woman on top of an elephant without a glance.
"Geezer" wrote in news:MZWdnS_io93PY6bYnZ2dnUVZ snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.com:
Most shows around me in NE Indiana want groups to stay to the end, and also for layout presenters to keep running trains to the end. They aren't too picky about what's running, just as long as something's moving.
After reading this and the replies, I looked back on meets I attended and I recall one small local meet on a Sunday that was supposed to end at 4 pm. I arrived at around 3 and they let me in free...no wonder...everyone had packed up except for one vendor and he had nothing I wanted.
Another time, I couldn't get to the meet until an hour before closing and almost everyone had packed up except for a couple of vendors...one of which I later became acquainted with and was a loyal customer of his for years afterwards.
Sometimes, one has other obligations and can't always get to the meets until later and sometimes one travels to the meet assuming there will be something and someone left to buy from.
Bill Bill's Railroad Empire N Scale Model Railroad:
Some show organizers don't give you very much time to unpack/pack, a while ago at a show I heard someone saying the organizers there only allowed 1/2 hour to packup, what if a dealer needed an hour ?, then he has to pack up earlier than usual.
"Frank A. Rosenbaum" wrote in message news:QI1%g.1455$ snipped-for-privacy@newsfe07.lga...
I guess I'd like to clarify - all the foregoing discussion was about "dealers". Going to many TCA meets, there is a distinction between "dealers" - people whose business is selling trains for profit and who go to many meets during the year, and "individuals", who buy a table now and then to sell off the excess from their collections or rosters. I can understand requirements by meet organizers on "dealers" as has been discussed in the preceding posts. But I strongly feel that the same rules should not apply to "individual" sellers. I have to drive 6 hours to get to meets in PA, and pay for motels and meals out. I price my trains below the guide books and above what I paid so they will sell at one meet so I won't have to go back to meets again and again to try and unload my excess at top dollar. As such I have absolutely no sympathy or feeling of obligation to the late hanger-on bottom-feeders who seem to want me to pay for another night in a motel so they can argue me down a few bucks on some left-over in the last hours of the meet. If I have sold most of what I bring to the meet on the first day by reasonable pricing, then it does not make economic sense for me to hang around on the chance I'll sell a couple items at a loss or slight return. It make more economic sense for me to throw the few left-over items away at the end of the first day of the show. I feel the meet owes me as an individual seller who paid for a table as much consideration as the meet owes the customer who may not spend a dime. Geezer
On Mon, 23 Oct 2006 19:45:46 -0400, I said, "Pick a card, any card" and "Geezer" instead replied:
Well then, don't be surprised when those very customers who read this will pass you by at the next meet.
The train shows have always been for the profit of the sellers and dealers. They customers are those you sneer at here. You seem to have misplaced your sense of destiny, mate. You make money. You have an obligation towards those who pay you money. Those who purchase entrance have a right to see you even if your table is empty or you decide not to lower your prices.
I had a similar experience a few years back and, since it was a two hour drive to the meet, I haven't been back since; I'm sure I'm not alone in voting with my feet.
Perhaps if organizers applied a "performance bond" with table-renters getting all, some, or none back depending on when they left.
Basically, stupid is as stupid does. Such things really just rile up everybody when publicly announced like that as you have already exibited. The warning should have been done in a private meeting at sometime during the show but the show producers just were stupid in that regard. Besides, really wnat penalty can they put to the table people other than they can't attend any future meetings?
-- Yeppie, Bush is such an idiot that He usually outwits everybody else. How dumb!
They could collect a monetary security deposit [as done with real estate rentals]. Each dealer who is at their table at the end of the show gets their security deposit returned to them. Money penalties have a way of answering these types of issues.
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