Excelsior 3cyl, 2stroke, water in crankcase

I don't know the excelsior but assuming its a standard 2 stroke, Turn off fuel feed, remove spark plug leads and crankcase drain plugs. crank engine and blow water out of crank case. once liquid stops blowing out crank case replace plug and remove spark plugs, continue cranking. replace spark plugs but not leads and crank, this will flood the cylinders but more importantly all the bearing surfaces in crank case. remove spark plugs and dry then replace and start engine, run at no load to settle engine lubrication and away you go. Martin McGowan

Hmmm, I have searched and cannot find any drain plugs. My alternative is to take the engine out of the boat and turn the engine upside down !

I have been trying to dry the engine out by leaving a hot lamp for days on top of the heads, but so far this has not worked.

Are there any magic fluids I can inject down the plug holes ? Might methylated spirits help ? Would meths corrode the insides ?

Thanks for the response.

Joe

Remember to ground the plug leads when turning the engine over otherwise the high voltage can damage the mag if it has no where to go :-(,

Regards bob

I don't think there is a mag.

The starter consists of an aluminium bowl, much like a saucepan, mounted at the front of the engine. On top of this there are three relays. When activated, one of these supplies current to the starter motor. I do not know what the others do.

A shaft protrudes out through this starter and on it there is a cam. As the cam rotates it opens a set of points (there are three independant sets). Each cylinder also has a separate coil.

Really this is three little engines in one, very clever for a marine context.

Thanks

Joe.

"snark" wrote

Is it any relation to the 3 cyl Excelsior which Berkeley used in some of their little sports cars?

Time is becoming of the essence, you don't want the crankpins & mains to pit, so get the thing running! It appears that you have no crankcase drain plugs, so spin it fast with the spark plugs out, put them back in & try it.

If there is water still about, it will soon enough fly out of the exhaust or get across the plug gap & stop the cylinder firing. Clean plug & repeat until it doesn't.

But whatever, my opinion would be to deal with it sooner rather than later.

Regards,

Kim

---------------------------------------------------------- From the description I would guess it is.

It seems also to have a Siba dynastart unit ,I wonder if it has a marine gearbox fitted ?.If not selecting reverse would entail stopping the engine selecting the reverse rotation solenoid and restarting the engine to run in the opposite direction ,not an ideal situation in a boat !! Mike.H.

I'll second that. I pumped out the water from a freshly drowned BSA Bantam in pretty much the same way in the absence of a spanner for the drain plug. (A moments youthful bravado crossing a stream ;-) It took a while, but it all came out with a lot of kicking and several false starts. And it was still running okay when I sold it several months later.

If it's seawater in the Excelsior it's even more important.

Gyppo

Well it is a guess. Non of the photographs on that web site show my engine. But then, mine is a marine version. There is only one carburettor, a Zenith. She is water cooled.

Have I any hope of getting technical information/user/service manuals for this engine ?

Yes, it does and it appears to be working :-)

During trials yesterday she did backfire _once_ through the carburettor, so I am living in hope.

Conditions are not ideal here at the moment, we are in the middle of a wet Irish winter and drying conditions are not good.

I am taking the advice given by most: I am keeping the engine warm/hot using a lamp, then most days I try to crank her over with no plugs in. I then squirt some neat petrol into one plug hole, fit that plug and crank again for about 5 mins or so. She does not fire. I then remove the plug and it is all wet. If I strike a match to the wetness it does not catch fire :-(

Someone has mentioned a valve of some sort in the the crankshaft. Is it possibe that it is now damaged by water ?

Am I correct in thinking that a 2 stroke should make some attempt to fire after petrol is squirted in the plug hole, or should I concentrate on squirting petrol into the carburettor air intake ? I am trying to rule out the carburettor as a fault cause.

All this is very dangerous in the confines of a boat !

Thanks a lot.

I really REALLY wouldn't be squirting neat petrol in anywhere, all you'll do is wash away any lubricant thats left!! It won't fire as you're literally drowing the poor thing in neat fuel. My advice-get a can of WD40, squirt copious amounts into the carb and down the plugholes. Wait a few minutes for the solvent/propellant to evaporate, and crank the engine over. Repeat as many times as you think necessary. Then try to start it up using the correct ratio petroil mix.

Regards

Philip T-E

I have been at this for days now, although using petrol, I'll confess. Yesterday I spent nearly all my daylight hours at her.

Should I have the trottle fully open, or only slightly, choke open or closed ?

At one stage, with the plugs out, I left the starter running for about

20 mins continuously. Luckily I have lots of good batteries. I am a wee bit worried about damaging the starter.

But still she will not start, although yesterday she did seem to splutter a couple of times. The "stuff" that collects on the ends of the plug is not at all flamable. I have tried it with a match.

With the plugs out, the petrol turned off, I can see a kind of mist coming out of the plug holes. Agan, when I collect it on a cloth or board, it is not at all flamable.

As the engine cranks, I put my ear to the exhaust and I can hear water being sloshed around inside. Very frustrating.

I have been told that if there is water at all in the combustion chamber, she will not start.

It is getting to the point where I may have to remove the engine from the boat and put her up on the bench :-(

Thanks a lot.

Joe.

Sounds reasonable, you didn't explain how you flooded it with coolant?

I suspect after this time of trying that the coolant may still be getting in, is there any sealing twixt crankcase and cylinders that may have dried out through lack of use?

If it is just stubborn residual water in the crankcase there should be a position of the piston where a small bore plastic tube can be inserted into the crankcase if the inlet manifold is removed.

AJH

No that's the wrong side of the pistons.

Meths would mix with residual water and the larger volume could then be blown out, with a couple of goes I think you would dry it out but then you'd need to ventilate it well to get rid of the meths if it didn't start. I think meths corrodes both brass and rubber.

AJH

After 'several day' I think you've probably reached the point where putting on the bench is the only guaranteed way to avoid any long term problems. Once it's up there you may find the missing drain plug(s). Engine designers are wierd folk, but a two-stroke without any kind of crankcase draining facility seems very wierd.

No doubt someone will now write in with a list of examples ;-)

Seize the nettle, Joe. It would be a crying shame to let a comparitively rare engine develop a load of internal rust. Sometimes the longest way around is the quickest route.

Best wishes.

Coolant leaves the cylinder head and enters the top of a vertical exhaust silencer. As the exhaust gases rush out they suck coolant around the engine from the river. Water inlet to the engine is just below the water line on the boat.

I stupidly put a garden hose up the water inlet and FORCED water around the engine and into the exhaust. Presumably it filled up the silencer and then back filled into the combustion chambers.

She was running fine before that. I was so proud of myself. Previously this engine had not run in over 20 years !

Thanks again.

Joe

Stop wasting your time, and pull the motor off its mounts. A partial strip down / inspection whilst its on the bench upside down draining and flushing out the water is likely to be time well spent.

Tim..

Is this engine air-cooled?

No. Water.

Very Interesting.... I thought the only 3 cylinder 2 stroke that Excelsior made was for the Berkeley SE492 but this was air cooled. It was developed from the Exceslior Talisman Twin that was fitted to its' motorcycles in the fifties and basically had another cylinder grafted on one end. This resulted in the achilles heel of the engine as instead of making a new crankshaft they used the existing twin with an extension that was keyed in place. Under stress the keys were prone to shearing, leaving the engine with only 2 working cylinders.

As with all 2 strokes the crankcase seals are very important and the ones between the cylinders should be checked carefully.