Gas turbine insurance concerns

John Manders made an interesting point to me. He said that he saw a gas
turbine APU run up at Yesterday's Farming and it occurred to him that a
catastrophic blade failure at a public event might have very dire
consequences indeed. After all, the engine is being run bare and
uncontained, something that no turbine is allowed to do now on modern jets.
Naturally, there are an ever increasing number of turbines about now and
some of the older ones might well be forty or fifty years old and been
stored in very doubtful circumstances. I know of one Derwent that makes the
occasional appearance that was retrieved from a scrapyard.
John postulated that whilst the insurance company would cover any damage etc
to third parties, the premium would be lots the following year. I've been
turning this over in my mind and I think that any insurance company faced
with a whacking great bill would want to examine the circumstances carefully
before opening their corporate wallets and saying "help yourself". It was
certainly not a risk they signed up for and I urge you to recommend to your
club to inform their insurers that gas turbines might appear at their events
in future.
Apart from any other reason they might find to hide behind, the rule of
uberime fide ("of utmost good faith" ) would probably apply
Regards,
J. Kim Siddorn,
Reply to
Kim Siddorn
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I would suggest that rather than frightening off the insurers with visions of exploding turbine discs, the people who want to show turbines should put in place their own safety shields or whatever, rather than loading everyone else's insurance up.
However much fun they may be, I personally feel that these are not the sort of device that should be encouraged to be run on a casual basis in public. The insurers are already reviewing their market rates for 2005, having this sort of thing popping up before their eyes would only increase premiums/restrictions for the rest of the hobby.
Let us stick to conventional engines when displaying in public.
Peter
-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email Address: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web Pages for Engine Preservation:
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Reply to
Peter A Forbes
I agree to an extent, but I cannot see that a SE club would be prepared to make rules for gas turbines - they are not that common and who is to say if screens are good enough until one goes BANG!!! I used to work on Oly 593 development in the sixties and a seized number five bearing brought a shower of turbine blades out of the casing, immediately followed by the hollow shaft breaking in two and appearing out of the top of the case. Very impressive.
I believe the Solent gas turbine (for instance) has a free turbine which could easily overspeed and decide to see the light of day. This APU is only 65lbs in weight and appears for sale fairly regularly. I just missed one last year on E-bay for about £500, so they are not especially expensive either.
My point really is that clubs should be ahead of the game and perhaps ask would-be exhibitors to provide their own TPL cover rather than load the premiums for the rest of us.
Regards,
Kim Siddorn,
Reply to
Kim Siddorn
I think most insurers would baulk at covering a possibly; life expired, inadequately maintained, inexpertly operated gas turbine engine!
Reply to
Nick H
Sorry if I misinterpreted your original post, Kim, but I just cannot see any sane insurer wanting to get involved. I know that we have enough trouble here getting our standard insurances cover each year on what is basically pretty straightforward engineering, so a newbie with an old APU turbine is just going to be brushed aside by his insurers, unless they are not aware enough of what he is showing.
Peter -- Peter A Forbes Prepair Ltd, Luton, UK snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk
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Reply to
Prepair Ltd
Whilst that is an eminently sensible suggestion, I would prefer that anyone intending to run such a device was not within 5 miles of me! I'm afraid that having a fairly substantial desire to reach my three-score-years-and-ten, I would not be pacified with assurances that the guy was well insured!
It has always struck me that any design that tests the available materials technology to it's limits is not a good design when entrusted to Joe Bloggs who's appreciation of these things is limited to the fact that it makes a huge noise and can cook the neighbours cat at 50 yards!
Maybe it's just me - I'm still shocked as to why anyone would hurtle around on a machine that is capable of doing 170mph and yet is inherently unstable by virtue of it having only two wheels - it's instability is adequately demonstrated by the fact that it is incapable of staying vertical when stationary!
Mark
Reply to
Mark Howard
Where would I get one of these units from, in running order ???? -- Regards,
John Stevenson Nottingham, England.
Reply to
John Stevenson
Never owned a top, then?
Tom
Reply to
tmartin
I did, but the resultant damage to Mum's paintwork on the kitchen cupboards kind of spoilt that experience as well! :)
I also owned several two wheeled velocipedes, but a minor incident with an Austin A40 (I'm not really that old, am I?) resulted in a whole lotta broken bones and generally pulped bits and pieces along with a vow to never pilot anything incapable of obliterating your average family saloon on contact! :)
Mark
Reply to
Mark Howard
Owning a leaky Brit bike in ones past, would just about be obligatory, if one is to graduate successfully to stationary engine ownership, I would have thought..:-)
Tom
Reply to
Tom
Aeroplanes don't stay up long when they stop either. I still fly though.
John
Reply to
John Manders
Erm, surely I'm not the only one here that has bikes lurking in the garage? My Inter Norton is in the middle of being restored and I have a 1986 Honda XBR 500 single outside the front door.
It is only two years ago since someone was injudicious enough to offer me a "Quick run up the road" on his Fireblade, an offer I very promptly took up, much to his consternation! It went very well indeed and any Christian soul would be proud of me as I put the fear of God into several (including myself!) before I brought it back, cold, windblown and with flies stuck to me teeth.
Regards,
Kim
Reply to
Kim Siddorn
Peter A Forbes. said -
Sorry if I misinterpreted your original post, Kim, but I just cannot see any sane insurer wanting to get involved. I know that we have enough trouble here getting our standard insurances cover each year on what is basically pretty straightforward engineering, so a newbie with an old APU turbine is just going to be brushed aside by his insurers, unless they are not aware enough of what he is showing.
My point exactly. I've heard several people say this year that "there was a gas turbine running at so-and-so" and asking the exhibitor to insure himself before running one in a public place would deal effectively with a growing risk before it overtakes us.
No doubt a SE club asking their insurers about it would receive a negative response, once again acting as a heads up for both parties.
The insurance angle is just a way of approaching the matter in an inarguable way.
Regards,
Kim
Reply to
Kim Siddorn
... wakes up in a dark ages cold sweat, a scream issuing from his lips...
A horde of Fireblade riding Saxons have just arrived in the valley, burning, looting, and wheelieing all over the place. Wheelieing?
Oh may the Gods be praised, it was just a dream. That's the last time I try those mushrooms. ;-)
Arthur G
Reply to
Arthur G

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