How do you like yours/ painted or rusty

I don't like shiney engines, I think they have ruined that part of the restoration. Old paint is part of an old engine, and should be kept, IMHO. I by far prefer to see an original engine, and find shiney examples unreal and boring.

Trolleys are a farce too - usually completely out of character with an engine, horrible varnished timber, as if it were a piece of furniture, or RHS steel and welding, completely out of character with the era.

Naturally there are problem engines - my Crossley had been slathered with blue paint over every single part, a repaint was the only solution.

An unrestored tractor or engine speaks for itself, it shows its age with its patina. A repaint removes all that component and makes the engine a foreigner in a new era.

I think the "strip it and paint it" reaction is normal to all who like to see machinery bought back to life, but I think we need to re-think this one, and consider the paint as part of the machine built so long ago, and worthy of preservation along with all the other parts.

development -

Oily rag enthusiasts are usually greasy little buggers anyway & need a bloody good wash. We have one in our club known to one an all as Stinker & his Girlfriend? Little Stinker.

Now now, just because everyone disagrees with you there's not need to get nasty.

Al

a> Now now, just because everyone disagrees with you there's not need to a> get nasty.

Interesting that everyone in the 'keep it original' brigade seem ready to accept that others might wish to treat their engines differenty, whereas the 'bull it up' contingent (ok, the op) refuse to acknowledge the validity of any other point of view ;-)

nickh (lazy greasy soap dodger)=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.

(snip)

n> nickh (lazy greasy soap dodger)===

Sorry, lazy greasy soap dodging preserver of rusty old crap ;-)

nickh=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8

I agree entirely with that. However, 50 year old paint will have lost it's original colour. It will have worn thin in many places and be missing in many others. It's quite usual to see 50% of the paint missing. If 50% of a piston ring were missing........? Surely no one would suggest keeping it or even trying to repair the remains. A new ring would be made, hopefully to match the original as closely as possible in material and design. Should we not do the same with paint?

John

Personally I much prefer to see engines as working machines, not museaum exhibits. Next thing someone will suggest driving them with electric motors so they don't get all dirty and oily. Then why not just show plastic replicas with a recording........Work hard enough at that and who will know the difference?

To me these machines are living memory. I never saw them in showrooms, but on building sites and on farms. They were never polished or repainted. I see them as nostalgia, and for that they need to be seen in context. And writing this is making me realize just how old I am getting :)

Al

There is some considreable evidence that companies such as Petters, Bamfords, Listers and others had show engines made up and finished to a higher standard than regular production engines.

David Edgington has published quite a few articles in the 1980's in Stationary Engine magazine with details of what was done to produce show engines.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

Oh dear us oily raggers run engines with worn out parts, what ever next, tut, I ask you. I will just go and put back the rusty crappy tank that came with my Lister L and throw the nice new copper one away :-))

Here is something else for the pot, I hate "Cup for the best engine" shows because again it is subjective. Nobody is going to pick an original untouched working engine " with worn out parts :-))" because it does not shine and they owner has obviously not put any real effort into getting working and looking nice.

Martin P

I like both! But I lean towards the oily rag engines. If you have a seized up lump of rust it will likely need so much work that you might as well give it a new lick of paint. But if the engine is otherwise sound and can be made a runner with some TLC to the innards then I would leave it at that. My Lister will not be re-painted, I like it just the way it is.

The same with my motorcycles. I have a Velo LE that is not pristine but it starts and runs. I also have a couple in bits and they will be restored with fresh paint and polished rims. However I do try an keep it sensible and will even paint in a color that I think will look good rather than the original one.

Michael

On Sun, 4 Jun 2006 21:39:45 +0100, "campingstoveman" finished tucking into their plate of fish, chips and mushy peas. Wiping their mouths, they swiggged the last of their cup of tea, paid the bill and wrote::

If the cup is awarded by the votes of the competitors, rather than by a judge, then an original untouched "just got it running" engine can win it. Also the Steward of the section, possibly knowing the engines and exhibitors better than the judge, can "help" by pointing out engines which have had difficult restorations, or have other factors in their favour. He wouldn't (heaven forbid) influence the judge: just make sure he's fully aware of all the facts. ;-)

Brian L Dominic

Web Sites: Canals:

Newsgroup readers should note that the reply-to address is NOT read: To email me, please send to brian(dot)dominic(at)tiscali(dot)co(dot)uk

I've now read quite a lot written by David Edgington but haven't come across anything to show that they went to the extremes of some modern engine restorers, though I must admit I'd never heard of SEM in the eighties 8-).

Greg

Oh, yes, it was around in the early days of preservation, mine go back to 1976 or 77. He did some articles that were related to show engines IIRC, I'll dig out the details if you are interested.

Peter

-- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk Web:

I have a Douglas flat twin that is both original and ponced up. It is obviously a show model, all the ali castings are polished, the pipework chromed and the paintwork black & glossy. It is also not perfect anymore & I'd say (not having looked inside) that it has never been run.

They do exist, I once had a Vincent vee twin engine that had a polished crankcase & inquiries indicated that it was from a 1950 show model.

Regards,

Kim Siddorn

For a change, most here seem to agree ;o)) If there is a finish in the least worth preserving, preserve it. If it is a rusty heap and needs complete restoration, restore the paint too - a number might prefer to put more eggs in their pudding than others, but that is the nature of man - to differ.

No one has mentioned rarity. As many of my Iron Toys are at least unusual, I think it is my duty during my period of tenure to Do No Harm & on the rare occasions that I repaint anything, to get it as close as possible to the original. Chrome etc costs money & I'm a mean, tight fisted sod when it comes to superior finishes!

The great majority of engines one sees displayed were made in their hundreds of thousands and survive often in thousands or at least hundreds. If it takes the fancy of one to rip all the paint off and start again, it may be unfortunate, but there are others just the same that have not suffered that fate & act as reference material for future custodians.

Finally, if you repaint, leave an out of the way patch of originality for subsequent owners to find who may not be of your mind.

Regards,

Kim Siddorn

That's interesting, it always helps to have some hard evidence rather than just assertion, so those going 'over the top' have some justification for saying there were originals like it. Of course the same can be said for those who paint in 'wrong' colours as there is evidence that there were special paint jobs to customer's requirements.

My personal view is to preserve the original and that of course means the original of the particular thing, I have what I think is a fairly rare Lister D generator with original alternator, bed plate and trolley, only the control box is sadly missing. It's been painted over in black and I'm painstakingly removing this to reveal the original paint beneath and will continue with the emphasis on restoration.

Incidentally, if any one has any info on the control boxes of these sets, or even one kicking around, I would be very interested.

Greg

My Lister JP3 generating set was supplied to the military so has a coat of military green,but also was given a coat of some sort of preserving wax probably whilst in storage,the Lister green isn't much different to the military green so it will be getting the oily rag treatment,and on the subject of painting can somebody please explain the purpose of painting jerry cans. Kev