OT Misuse of H&S legislation?

Just seen the news conferance Re the wreck of the Napoli - apparently the police currently have no powers to close the beach or to prevent anything
being removed (provided it is reported etc etc), something which is clearly causing the 'powers that be' some distress. Their solution is that by designating the beach as a work site, they would then be able to prevent public access under health an safety legislation.
Whichever side of the looting vs legitimate salvage debate you come down on, this is surely a sneaky misuse of H&S to once more protect the public from something they don't need or want to be protected from.
What do you think?
--
B.Rgds

Nick H
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On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:11:42 -0000, "miley_bob"

I get the feeling 'they' decided something had to be done because of the huge mess being created by people chucking aside packaging and things they didn't want. Maybe H&S legislation was the most valid way they could find to do it.
Tim
Dutton Dry-Dock Traditional & Modern canal craft repairs Vintage diesel engine service
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On Tue, 23 Jan 2007 14:27:15 +0000, Tim Leech

In which case why hasn't plod got hard hats, boots, safety glasses and harness oh and a rubber safety duck if near water ? -- Regards,
John Stevenson Nottingham, England.
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This is local to me and there are other perspectives. The school has had to be closed as neither teachers nor pupils could get there. Locals cannot go about their lawful business and have been abused by the thieves. Instead of a few whole containers a beautiful, and unspoilt beach, is covered in all sorts of persistent waste. AFAIC they can use any law that fits to bring this mayhem to an end.
tta
--
Roland Craven
Nr. Exeter, Devon, UK
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I know a bit about this as it starts in the law of Early Mediaeval England. It was originally designed to ensure that the King got the best stuff & anything washed up on the beach (technically on the foreshore between high and low tide) is a droit of the Crown. Not the State, but HM Herself. In them days, it was mostly whales and Viking ships!
The position must be difficult to resolve, as it has survived many purges such as 1947 when much old stuff was swept away - like the Witchcraft Act, for instance. Thus, the Police can't stop you hauling the stuff away, as each citizen is responsible to the Queen and it is between Her Majesty & Her subject to come to an accommodation about the worth of the stuff they have removed. You'll note that it is " *H.M.* Receiver of Wrecks".
It is a strange loophole to remain in English Law & I'm curious to know what advantage it is to the State & Crown to have left this ambiguity in the law for so long.
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
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KS> I know a bit about this as it starts in the law of Early Mediaeval KS> England. It was originally designed to ensure that the King got the KS> best stuff & anything washed up on the beach (technically on the KS> foreshore between high and low tide) is a droit of the Crown. Not the KS> State, but HM Herself. In them days, it was mostly whales and Viking KS> ships!
KS> The position must be difficult to resolve, as it has survived many KS> purges such as 1947 when much old stuff was swept away - like the KS> Witchcraft Act, for instance. Thus, the Police can't stop you hauling KS> the stuff away, as each citizen is responsible to the Queen and it is KS> between Her Majesty & Her subject to come to an accommodation about KS> the worth of the stuff they have removed. You'll note that it is " *H. KS> M.* Receiver of Wrecks".
KS> It is a strange loophole to remain in English Law & I'm curious to KS> know what advantage it is to the State & Crown to have left this KS> ambiguity in the law for so long.
My own view on this has changed somewhat, largely due to Roland's input both on and off list. I regarded the law on maritime salvage as a quaint old tradition - the sort of thing which makes Britain the fascinating place that it is. However, in combination with modern conditions of rapid communication and mass media, it has resulted in the world and his dog descending on a small Devon village making everyone's life a misery. Clearly some change is needed.
Still don't agree with pressing H&S into service though, it is used too often to curb perfectly legitimate activities. As an example, a member of our local SE club works at a large educational establishment, the skip of which used to be a happy hunting ground the pickings often gracing our bring and buy sales. Now, H&S requirements apparently require that the skip is out of bounds and its contents may only be removed by authorised contractors - no doubt to go for land fill. And this governement is supposed to be encouraging recycling ;-)
nickh=== Posted with Qusnetsoft NewsReader 2.2.0.8
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The authorities have declared this beach dangerous. I wonder what that will do for their holiday trade? I shall certainly not go there.
I object strongly to the use of the H&S title being attached to actions as a justification. This misuse degrades genuine H&S issues. We've all heard stupid cases of this in action and it annoys me intensly.
While I can sypathise with Roland and others in his area, allowing the use of an inapropriate law to support ones personal views is wrong. Ultimately this gives groups or individuals the power to veto another persons actions. That could see the end of many activities simply because some local doesn't like them. Our shows could be included in that. It wouldn't be difficult to make a good H&S case against unqualified people running old badly maintained,leaky, dangerous machines and vehicles in an area of natural beauty where the public and children are present.

rather tried to make a piece of ill defined legislation work in an area it was never designed for.
John
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wrote:

The ultimate misuse of the H&S act was in the London shooting just post the July bombings when that Brazilian was shot. According to the law it was OK to shoot and kill him but against H&S to discharge a firearm in a pubic place or whatever. The H&S case has still to be heard but the murder / manslaughter charge against plod has been dropped.
So this now makes a H&S case far more important than murder or manslaughter and no doubt the penalty will reflect this when heard.
-- Regards,
John Stevenson Nottingham, England.
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Gentlemen,
Just got back from three days in the Emerald Isle and thought I would add my penny worth. In my eyes the ship and its goods belong to someone, not the thieving B******s who are\ were looting it, end of story.
Martin P

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wrote:

Apparently, in the eyes of the centuries old law, they belong to Her Majesty. Why?, because a monarch could simply take anything they wanted... So who is the thieving B*****d?, oh heck, I think they can still hang me for saying that 8-). Greg
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Greg wrote:

I'd like to see the Queen tour on a rusty BMW bike.
Joules
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The old maritime law of salvage seems to have been got round somehow. Not sure if H&S was invoked in the end - there was mention of some equally ancient law originally intended to prevent deliberate wreckers (showing false light etc) profiting from their activities.
--
B.Rgds

Nick H
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The Salvage law applies to goods - and ships, the Mary Celeste was salvage - found at sea. Goods on the foreshore belong to Her Majesty.
Regards,
Kim Siddorn
If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?

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