Rant: Some scrap dealers have no standards

Hi folks,
I met a guy who claims to be a machinery trader yesterday while I was
looking for some JCB parts. I don't believe him, though. I think he's
effectively a scrap dealer. He showed me a Mark I JCB 3C which he bought
last week for £800. A nice machine which has clearly been looked after.
The cab was a bit tatty, but that was the only major problem it had. Ran
really well. He says he's going to scrap it so that he can get just over
£1000. I feel this is obscenely wasteful.
If I was a bit richer, I'd buy the machine to save it, but I already
have a rarer Fordson-based 3C, and I can only cope with one battle at a
time. He also told me that he'd recently scrapped a JCB 4D. That is
tragic, as the 4D is probably the rarest and most impressive JCB ever
made. If I had visited when the 4D was in his yard, I don't think I'd
have been able to resist buying it.
I guess you can blame China to some extent for driving up scrap metal
prices (for some light-hearted mockery of China, take a look at this:
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. But the brunt of the
blame lies with scrap dealers who take advantage of generous sellers and
feel no guilt about scrapping good machines just to make a modest
profit. I'm not saying I'm against people making money. I'm just against
people making money through unacceptably wasteful and destructive means.
It's not just one guy either. There are plenty of these guys out there
destroying our industrial heritage. In my view, their behaviour is
wholly unacceptable, on a level with that of pimps and loan sharks. It's
a pity that there isn't a law which prevents this kind of thing.
If anyone in the Shropshire/Cheshire/North Wales area wants a Mark I JCB
3C (or the Nuffield engine, which is a great runner), drop me an e-mail
(cdt22 AT cantabgold DOT net) and I'll give you the guy's number. You'll
need to be quick, though, as he says he's scrapping it on Monday morning.
If there's one lesson we can learn from this, it's that if you can't
keep a machine and yet you want to safeguard its future, you should know
the scrap value of the machine and make sure that you set your price
above it.
Best wishes,
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
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The message from Christopher Tidy contains these words:
Damn. I could make use of a digger at £1000 but getting it to Keighley, West Yorkshire on a low loader would probably cost another £1000.
Reply to
Roger
Yes this is a unhealthy situation,most scrap dealers are only in it for the money and nothing else,at the moment they are riding a wave,this situation can not go on at this rate,why are so many scrap dealers/collectors getting things for next to nothing,most have to only knock on a door and walk away with pounds worth of scrap for nowt.
Reply to
R D Gravy
You want the guy's number, Roger?
Best wishes,
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
The message from Christopher Tidy contains these words:
Thanks but don't tempt me. I think the cost of getting it from the Welsh Border to Yorkshire is likely to be too high and impossible to arrange any transport within the timescale. I wouldn't even know where to start looking for someone to do the transport.
Reply to
Roger
Nowhere near =A31000. Shropshire to West Yorkshire is =A3300 or so.
--=20 Conor
I only please one person per day. Today is not your day. Tomorrow isn't=20 looking good either. - Scott Adams
Reply to
Conor
I've sent you an e-mail. The guy has a big truck, so I'm sure he could be persuaded to deliver it for the right money. If I can help you any further, let me know.
Best wishes,
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
I agree , I walked into a local scrap dealers yard two weeks ago and spotted a Parkanson power hacksaw .I have been looking for a power hacksaw for some time. I made enquiries with the owner and he said that he had just got it from an old bloke who just wanted the scrap value . He said that it still operates,and it turned over by hand very easily I paid 70.00AUD for this one. This saw wieghs 500kgs ,it has hydraulic lift for the blade beam and power down feed.The blade frame is on a dovetailed slide with adjustable gibb strip.It will take 3 different blade lenghts . It is avery solidly constructed machine and is of around the 50's vintage .Made in Australia by Theo Park and sons of Melbourne. I have partially stripped it down so I can fix a few small problems and repaint to a colour close to original. It has 2HP three phase motor ,but I will have to find a single phase motor for it as I don't have three phase power. I'm just glad I rescued this before it was broken up ,I feel I have saved a piece of Australian manufacturing history .The Parkanson business was bought out by Capitol Machinery Sales some time ago , they don't make reciprocating saws any longer , but do make the continuous blade bandsaw types.
Reply to
Kevin(Bluey)
I have a power hacksaw too. A Qualters & Smith 8 inch. Sounds very similar to yours. These things last forever, and they cut square too. Personally, I can't see why anyone in a home workshop would want a bandsaw instead.
Best wishes,
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
Rapidor, ex-school machine here.
Peter -- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk
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Reply to
Peter A Forbes
I can. Basically because they are faster than reciprocating p/saws. Whilst that is not usually important for a home w/s, it's the main reason for their decline in popularity in commercial w/shops. They can also be more versatile, smaller ones capable of being converting to jig saws when required.
Although many hacksaws are still in use, when the time comes, they are frequently replaced with bandsaws, which is why hacksaws can be picked up quite cheaply in the s/h market.
I work in a small commercial toolroom. Some years ago I threw out an old Q&S hacksaw, in favour of a cheap 4" bandsaw, which could also be used vertically for profile cutting etc. The hacksaw was just too clumsy for cutting thinner sections, which the bandsaw handles with ease. Mike.
Reply to
Mike G
Above and behind :-))
Two square slides.
Peter -- Peter & Rita Forbes Email: snipped-for-privacy@easynet.co.uk
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Reply to
Peter A Forbes
I don't cut much in the way of thin sections. I guess that's why I hadn't noticed. You can cut down to about 3 mm wall thickness on my Q & S hacksaw, using a 14 TPI blade. But my experience is that even well-maintained bandsaws don't cut as square as a power hacksaw, and I just find that an annoyance.
Best wishes,
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
Is that the one with the bowslide above the bow, or behind it? In the past I've steered clear of the ones with the bowslide behind the bow, as I've seen a couple with broken and repaired bows. Not sure if they get broken through normal use or abuse, though.
Best wishes,
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
Yes, that's the kind I was thinking of. No hydraulics, right? I think Rapidor also made a much bigger machine, with a Q & S style bowslide above the bow, and a hydraulic cylinder.
Best wishes,
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
That might be true your experience, but it's not true in general. Correctly set up, with good blades, a bandsaw is just as capable as a hacksaw of cutting squarely. My 4" b/saw with a good 1/2" wide blade can cut a 4" dia MS bar square within about 10 thou or less. Near enough for all but a perfectionist.
Go into any steel merchants supplying to trade shops, and I'd be surprised if you see them using anything but b/saws. They need the cutting speeds, but they'd soon lose customers if they supplied billets etc, that were not cut squarely.
But, hacksaws and bandsaws often cut off square as the blades start to get blunt and need replacing.
At that time, as well as becoming blunt, it's common for the tooth offset to wear more on one side than the other. That is the usual cause of saws cutting off square. That applies equally to both hacksaw and bandsaw blades. Mike.
Reply to
Mike G
It's possible that I've never seen a bandsaw that's well adjusted. Nevertheless I remember talking to a knowledgeable technician about the problem, and he said "They never cut square". But bandsaws do seem to be more sensitive to wear and poor maintenance than hacksaws, and I imagine that this could be the cause of the problems.
There's a trade machine shop near me which still has a Rapidor power hacksaw.
Best wishes,
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
Well, I passed on the guy's phone number to Roger, who called him first thing this morning. But he'd already scrapped it. What's especially galling is that he refused to sell me certain parts from the machine in case he wanted to sell it as a functioning machine. Wasteful idiot!
I'm tempted to post his name and address here so that anyone who's interested in machinery preservation can avoid selling stuff to him. But for the moment I won't in case it causes me trouble. However, if you're in the Shropshire/Cheshire/North Wales area and want to know, send me an e-mail (cdt22 AT cantabgold DOT net) and I'll tell you who he is.
I'm fuming!
Chris
Reply to
Christopher Tidy
Then your technician was less knowledgable than either of you thought. If they weren't capable of cutting square they wouldn't be the cut off saw of choice for most if not all, steel suppliers.
But bandsaws do seem to be
Bandsaws do have more critical parts than hacksaws. In particular the blade guides. The guides are adjustable for blade thickness, and to an extent for the angle of twist given to the blade. They must be set to twist the blade so it's exactly at 90 degrees to the vice bed. As long as that setting is maintained there is no reason why a b/saw should not make a square cut. Apart from blade wear, as mentioned before.
and I imagine
IME most trade shops don't need the increased cutting capacity of a b/saw for cutting their own material, so if they already have a hacksaw, see no reason to change unless it wears out. Apart from that, if space is at a premium, a hacksaw usually takes up less floor space than a b/saw of equal capacity. Mike.
Reply to
Mike G
What do you think scrap dealing is - a vocation? Of course they're in it for the money!
Ian
Reply to
Ian

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