Armoured vehicles and loading gauge...

It started in 1945 with the Centurion, this being the first British tank whose design was not constrained to be carried on British Railways.

The design limitation had been a major factor in undergunned British tanks as it limited the turret ring size, which had a knock on effect to the calibre of gun fittable.

Last British battle tank which could be carried within the .uk railway loading gauge without being dismantled was the Churchill (in production

1941-45, in service until after the end of the Korean war - maybe into the 1960s for specialist derviatives). The Comet (in production 1944) could, IIRC, be carried by rail if the track assemblies were dismantled. Centurions and more recent types had to be moved on road transporters.

Tracked scouting vehicles (Scimitar and derivatives) and infantry fighting vehicles (AFV 432 family and Warriors) will fit on rail transporters - but they're not tanks.

Thanks. The reason I asked here and not in an armoured group is that I've been reading a lot of retro reviews of Airfix' armoured vehicle kits. Airfix deliberately chose a scale of 1/76th in order to be "compatible" with 00/H0 scale railway models but it seems the vast majority of tanks are too wide to fit on a British railway wagon in any case. Nor will a 1/76th scale tank fit on a 1/87th scale H0 wagon for obvious reasons. It seems as if Airfix couldn't have picked a worse scale.

(kim)

The Scimitar family is so narrow they couldn't even fit a diesel engine (originally). It was designed to fit between the trees on Malay rubber plantations but arrived too late to make any difference to that conflict. The factory where it was made is now a retail park where I do most of my weekly shopping.

(kim).

I bet Big Willey was to big too

It Missed it by a long chalk then. We Used Saladin's and Saracen still when I Left in 72

Kim is an old Celtic name, the shortened form of Kimball.

My dad was there in '53, hence the Malay name. A year later I would have been a Gustav or a Hermann!

(kim)

It may well be but I was named after the son of a Malay housekeeper.

(kim)

OK.

"kim" wrote

Have Airfix models changed? I thought their military vehicles scale was

1/72 which is near enough for 00 (5%) oversize) and matched with a number of other items they made. Military and vehicle modelling has a range of scales that historically suited them but don't quite match railway scales. Though some aren't too far off 1/48 (some cars) is near 1/43.5 (O) and 1/35 is near and 1/32 spot on for Gauge 1, and the aircraft in 1/144 suit N.

Going back to the original question about tanks on the rails, what was carried down the old Wymondham-Dereham (now Mid Norfolk Railway) line all those years? It was kept open after passenger closure in 1972 for military materiel taken to Dereham or northwards for storage until the preservation group took it over in the 90s. Not too much of a loading gauge problem there as it's single track now and decent bridge widths don't limit anything, and East Anglian lines generally tend not to have too many gauge problems as there are few tunnels (Newmarket, Ipswich and not much else). If you look at Dereham you can see MoD sleepering - concrete with slots in the middle and rail spikes instead of chairs.

Continental railways have a generous enough loading gauge to permit regular military movements. I've seen Soviet T-72 tanks being unloaded at a rail yard in north eastern Czechoslovakia and driven through the streets to the army base on the hill. Scary noise when they come past on cobbles, I tell you.

Tony Clarke

If You mean They where around then your on the wrong name. Scimitar is based on the Scorpion that did not appear until 72. So you where thinking of the 6 wheel Saladin with the Rolls Royce Engines. Diesel engines where for boats and the men in dark blue The ones in light blue used Kerosene in there aircraft

In my days 62 to 72. In Germany We some times used rail and sometimes Road depending on where we where going with our Cents and Even the conquers up to chieftains

The traffic for Dereham, which has sometimes run since preservation, is of armoured personnel carriers and similar- the largest of these, the Warrior, is carried on modified Warwells and is subject to strict loading gauge restrictions. On one occasion, a train from Ludgershall to the ranges north of Catterick was sent via the platform road, rather than the loop, at Tyseley, and removed a large chunk of the recently restored canopy valancing. The BAOR tanks were carried on Warflats, which had been extended sideways to accomodate the post-Centurion MBTs- some 81 of these were repatriated to Eurotunnel's Cheriton terminal a few years ago, there being transferred to low-loaders for the onward journey. Brian

Yes which is why I replied that it was the British Loading gauge that was the problem, they were carrieable on the continental gauge.

Airfix military vehicles and figures have always been 1/76th except for a couple of items made by Heller and sold in Airfix boxes. The labelling was at one time changed from "00/H0" to 1/72nd but has since been changed back to avoid misleading customers.

(kim)

No, I meant my name was "kim"because my dad was stationed in Malaya in 1953 :o)

The following year when I was actually born he was stationed in Germany.

(kim)

Was the Churchill designed so that some bits on the side could easily be unbolted for rail transport, or am I thinking of something else?

The Comet (in production 1944) could,

I take it you mean "Big Willie", AKA "Mother" or "H.M. Landship 1"..

It fitted. Needed the gun sponsons unbolting and swinging into the hull, but with that done, it fitted - as did all the "Mk." series heavies, right down to the Mk.VIII and MK.XI.

Whippets, of course, fitted without modification.