A gauge dilemma

In message , Clive Summerfield writes

Move to OO and build it in the garden.

Would love to John, but the Garden is unsuitable, being on such significantly different levels that I'd need gradients of 1:5 or else have the trackbed at ground-level at one end, and 5' in the air the other. Still, I'll consider that a recommendation for 00, ta.

Score to date:

Cheers Clive

"Clive Summerfield" wrote

On a cost basis it's worth bearing in mind that the smaller the scale, generally the higher the cost, because of the temptation to cram in as much as possible. So if cost is a factor I'd suggest OO-scale.

John.

'OO' gauge all the way, doesn't have to be big, remember small is beautiful!

Nick

Good point John. An area-imposed limit might also stop me getting carried away and coming up with a layout that's virtually impossibel to operate as well.

Score to date:

Cheers Clive

Cheers Nick. And Dyserth Road and its rolling stock are a prime illustration.

Score to date:

Cheers Clive

=>So what does the panel think? Should I stick with N gauge, or move to 00? =>Opinions please. =>

=>Thanks in advance =>Clive

If that 3m x 2m is the size of the room, you have just barely have enough space for an OO layout IMO. A 2x around the room oval w/ 75-80 cm min. radius (pretty good) and a 2.5% to 3% (1 in 40 to 1 in 33) grade woulf fit. Double track would fit if you tighten up the min. radius to 60-65cm. There would also be just enough room for a staging (fiddle) yard (hidden behind low hills) along one side of the room. You would almost certainly need curved turnouts (points). This type of layout would work well for a display & watch-the-trains-run theme.

If it's the space in the middle of the room, consider an around the wall layout instead - more space. Keep in mind that an around the walls layout provides lots of storage space underneath, and even above, so that this format is always a space saver.

You _could_ consider going to North American N - much better quality than Farish. :-)

Good luck, and have fun!

My vote's for 00. I've squeezed a fair amount into a 6ft x 8ft space. Double loop (3 tracks through the station), 6 track fiddle yard, turntable, engine shed. Nearly all curved points, though (the only way to fit it all in), and not much room for scenery. With my slowly deteriorating vision and dexterity, I wouldn't want to tackle N!

However, my friend, who is 66, has an extensive N. American N layout, which he has been working on for over 20 years and is still adding to.

Very true. 00 is around the same price as N, while 0 is several times more expensive than 00.

That's what I like Martin, someone who can see both sides. Still, thanks for the reassurance that a sufficiently interesting layout can be built in 00 in a space no bigger than 8'x6'.

Score to date:

Cheers Clive

I agree with the comments on Farish and so would say that if you believe you're going to be unhappy with the stock running on your layout then it's not going to matter how much track you cram into the space it'll never satisfy. Stick with OO.

also, i'm currently building in N after deciding that it was the best way to go with the amount of room I have, and decided to build with a little one (currently 2) in mind and wanting a continous run etc, and as satisfying as the trackplan has proved to be, N gauge rolling stock is not something I could let the little 'un handle. Much too fragile.

now, saying all that, I'm extremely happy with my N gauge Japanese stock (four car, highly detailed, smooth running EMUs with directional lighting, all for less than 50 quid! lovely!) so if you want N gauge and want something that will actually move when you turn the controller, it's the only way to go ;)

Pete

If you're starting again from scratch bare in mind availability of not just the stock but all the other things you'll want to add, buildings, road vehicles, people, machinery, signals and so forth. Much, much wider choice of models and accessories in 00 compared to N, not just in terms of range but also in terms of qualities and prices likewise spares.

Of course you may wish to DIY as much as possible and have the skills to do so the above may not figure very highly in your scales otherwise you might want to for 00

n-gauge.....

For the 4 year old son: I would save some pennies, forget the Hornby, and buy a LGB train set. There are some around with reduced detail, lower prices, and rolling stock more suited to younger children. Indestructable, the cheaper stuff still uses the same basic mechanisms. Superb quality. Can be used indoors or outdoors. Can drive the car, or bicycles, over the track without harm. Sensible kiddie-sized stuff. The trucks will take Play-People, Lego, Corgi cars, etc. From what I remember, I saw some at a show for circa £100 for a kiddie-style trainset. If he really takes to it, when he is 8 or 10, there is scope for more detailed models from LGB rather than the toy ranges. By 12-14 you could consider live steam. I don't think you should mix finescale super-detailed models (eg. best OO offerings on sale) and toys for young children. (See thread about destruction of Langley signal box). If LGB doesn't appeal, then my next choice would be Lego trainsets, though it is expensive and not as good IMHO. Only when they're thrown out would I head towards OO. I'd avoid N for a child until at least 8, and showing a clear interest in the minature.

That leaves yourself: N gauge - UK outline. Farish slowly improving, but really only up to continuous running. Good if you want to run trains in a landscape. Less good for shunting IMHO. And the 08 sucks with wheels the wrong side of the frames. Some expensive super-detail loco ranges (eg. CJM), but with a waiting list of a few years, not for those in a hurry....

N gauge - US or Japanese. Super quality, reasonable prices. But its not UK outline.

OO - lots available, and some of the newest items are very good. Easy option for DCC. Probably limited to a terminius or shunting layout in the space described.

Scratchbuilding/finescale kit options. None are as hard or difficult as some portray them, they all just require a positive attitude and willingness to learn techniques. Good if you enjoy the challenge of making things, be it Scale-7, EM, Scalefour or 3mm or 2mm scales. Less good if your ambitions are to get things running relatively quickly and wish to concentrate on operation over building.

Obligatory plug for 2mm Scale Association (who have a decent 08 kit on its way, properly to scale, slow running designed in, outside frames, etc), but you'll have to make lots of things. New article on an easy scratch build

- Nigel (Secretary and Webmaster for the 2mm Scale Association;

Hi Clive,

What could a 4-year-old build or contribute to an N-gauge railway? How much fun will he get, and how much will he learn, from "watch Daddy's trains but don't touch"? How many Lego bricks does it take to build an N-gauge signal box?

He needs is own 0 gauge clockwork train set on the carpet.

regards,

Martin.

---------- email: snipped-for-privacy@templot.com web:

Clive

My first layout was 6' x 4' and ran HO. Two linked circles, one inside the other. Great to learn on but never had enough interest for me.

Skip forward some time.

New layout was decided upon after listing out the key factors the new layout had to have.

Answer - The latest layout is n gauge.

My key factors: - suggest you make up your own list to help you decide before size decision - Space is not an issue as the railway room is about 30' x 15' - Layout is 3 modules sized 3' x 8' - determined by the maximum size I could get in my van if I ever need to move it - Wanted continuous run (therefore need to turn around in 3' circle - biggest plus for going n gauge) - Wanted to run "big" engines with real trains - Three kids equals three "mainlines" - Wanted to be able to sit in a comfy chair with a coffee and railfan while my kids played with it. - I wanted a layout for me that interested me. (Although I still tell visitors I build it for the kids) - I talk to the kids about what we will build and they provide input - I have allowed this to be a twenty year hobby. Remember this is a hobby :-) to be enjoyed (with the kids) - I enjoy building it, no rush jobs, if I am not happy with what I have done I redo it etc. - Rivet counters never get invited to see it!!!! - If I only get to it once per month for a couple of hours so be it. - If it never gets finished I will not be stressed.

Work out your list and select your layout based on your list.

I see some issues for you,

- dcc is great but I have heard that using it for close quarter shunting is hard due to some control delay in changing settings, I have never used the product but you may like to check. - dcc is easier in n gauge if you go modern image - your layout should last a number of years, you could cab control and add dcc later - n gauge locos are limited but then again so is my budget so if you can get a new loco every year would you be happy.

Also keep talking to this list as the members here are great and have been a big help to me over the last couple of years.

Please let everyone know how it goes.

All the best

Andrew

the 3m x 2m is an approximate measurement.If I went for a wall mounted layout, that'd probably ease out to something like 2.5m x 3.5m. So it'd be tight for double track, but a continuous single track might fit. Thanks.

Only problem there would be that son insists on being able to see the real thing. And much as I'd love to spend a month or two cruising the US by train, SWMBO would insist on spending time at Disneyland, etc. So NA is out (for now).

Will do ta.

Score to date:

Cheers Clive

That's the way I'm tending to think. I look at the couple of Farish items I have and keep thinking "It's ok, but for the money I could have had that Heljan 47, etc". If it bugs me now, what's it going to be like in a year or so. Especially as I intend investing considerable time, effort and money in this project.

Seen that with other's rolling stock.

Unfortunately I (and my son) are Anglophiles when it comes to model railways.

Score to date:

Cheers Clive

Thanks. I'd noticed the issue with accessories and senics. Especially after seeing some of Townstreet's buildings in 00. Also there seems to be more potential for detailing, kit building and scratch building with 00.

Score

Cheers Clive

He's actually quite good with that sort of thing, but I reckon 00 would be more appropriate. He could always have his own "child friendly-ish" rolling stock to run on the layout.

Agreed. It is this that really triggered the dilemma.

Yup. Must be UK.

Which is why I have the dilemma. Would love something a little more than just a terminus or shunting layout.

The kit/scratch build is a longer term objective. Initially it is to get the core of the layout designed and running.

Will bear 2mm in mind. Thanks

Score:

Cheers Clive