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That is exactly why 00 was invented, to disguise oversize flanges on 16.5mm track.

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Why did British H0 fail, and why did 'American 00' (19mm gauge) vanish without trace? The size of motors alone was not the issue, P. O. W. Chubb, later proprietor of the Constructor and a member of the later BRMSB, wrote in the July 1936 MRC: No.1) Can one build strictly to scale? No. 2) Can one reduce external lines and details to scale? Yes. if one is prepared to go the 'Whole Hog' and reduce all working condition to scale. 3) (That means) (a) scale curves: in Gauge-0 15' or over, (b) sprung axles...if standards of absolute accuracy throughout are laid down the very conditions themselves would kill the hobby". And in a later letter ( MRC Dec 1941) "The reason 3.5mm failed is that it was much too difficult for the man of average ability to build anything satisfactory that would work". George Mellor of GEM wrote in his 1938/9 catalogue: "It is impossible to employ exact scale wheel-treads and flanges...as these would be so small that the slightest error in aligning the track or the suspicion of a warp on the baseboard would be sufficient to cause derailment...Goods of our manufacture are ALL built to 4mm scale 16.5mm gauge, the original and only practical 'Double-0 Gauge'".

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(kim)

Try

I have never used these, and I think you need to do your own assembly of wheel onto axle.

Probably a better alternative.

Terry,

The Sharman wheels work well and give very few, if any, problems. And they seem to be the only people who stock a 7' 3" driver in 4mm scale, with 22 spokes if that is enough for Greg's Atlantic. And the wheels are supplied with three varieties of tyre profile so there is an element of choice when trying to squeeze wheels into splashers.

The spoke centre of the wheel is a black plastic which has a small amount of 'give' so you can push the wheels onto an 1/8" axle and they stay put. You just have to take the usual care to push the axle in square to the wheel, and to make sure the axle ends are clean and square with no rough edges. I've had a set of Sharman Wheels (old enough to actually bought from Mike Sharman himself ) on an S scale loco and they are still true on their axles and have never slipped out of quarter.

Jim.

Except they have a limited range and very long delivery times! K Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.

"kim" wrote

I'm not sure it ever started seriously. The first *serious* incursion into sub O-gauge scales was by Hornby in 1938-39 when they introduced their ubiquitous 4mm scale model of the N2 and the A4 4-6-2. These were made to run on HO-gauge track and were the first mass-produced scale models, although I believe Marklin had previously dabbled with OO-scale producing some tinplate tank locos.

Thus the die was cast (in more than one way) and we've been stuck with OO/HO ever since.

John.

The statement I quoted from George Mellor was slightly disingenuous. He had originally produced models in true H0-scale and 19mm gauge as well as 00. It was only later he settled on 00 for all UK production.

(kim)

Greg -

I would use the 24 mm Romfords. They are probably about 26 mm over flanges which means you won't have to make the splashers oversize to make them fit.

I always use the nearest size of Romfords over flanges rather than over treads (in 00) for this reason

Hi Terry,

Thanks for the Sharman link, last time I looked they didn't have a web site or even email - I guess I don't build as many locos as I imagine ;-) I have used Sharman wheels before and was reasonably impressed.

All the important features are there, round, spokes, steel rims, nice flanges, plastic centers, crankpins etc.

Regards, Greg.P.

Terry Flynn wrote:

I want them in 3.5mm scale, and judging from the RM drawing there would be 22 spokes. It's hard to be 100% sure as the splasher comes below the center of the wheel.

That was Bing (1923-35) with 2-4-0s, and later Bub. Trix followed Bing, but scale was a moot point there. Maerklin made some 4-4-0 as Midland Compounds, as well as German 0-4-0s and

4-6-2s in British colours immediately pre WWII.

There was something of a battle of scales in the pre-war period, with some nice completed models from Stewart Reedpath (sp?) in HO I think the introduction of HD in OO settled the battle.

My main layout is early German and even though L&Y, LMS and BR never ran their trains to the south of Germany I still like to have all my models to the same scale. Some of the old Lima HO models, when fitted with decent wheels, couplers, a little detailing and weathering make acceptable "quickies" so I don't have to scratch build absolutely everything.

Regards, Greg.P.

GEM did HO???? What did he produce? and has anybody got any stockpiled???? :-)

Regards, Greg.P.

I was coming around to that way of thinking - the wheels are well covered by the splashers so an undersized wheel would probably be less obvious than oversized splashers. I tried quickie cardboard mockups but the wheel centers with 24mm wheels are below the splashers and with 26mm the splasher/boiler relationship was all wrong. That's when I turned to dithering. :-(

Regards, Greg.P.

Only a handful were ever produced to special order back in the days when small-scale models were all handmade. Mellor made it clear to potential customers that he would rather they ordered the 00 version.

(kim)

I was hoping they were whitemetal kits, the only products I have met from GEM.

Regards, Greg.P.

I should hope they are round!

Well they are usually 'round', but I have some which are eccentric! Also the moulded in crankpins often 'lean' and straightening them isn't on. Personally I prefer Ultrascale, but deliveries are problematic. Alan Gibson's wheels are usually OK and he does do a 3mm range.

Alistair Wright '5522' Models

I have in the past bought wheels that didn't match that criterion! It was admittedly back in the dark ages when it took, from posting off an order to the UK until the parcel had completed it's 12,000 mile path to my letterbox, around six months, but even then noncircular wheels were looked on with a certain amount of disfavour!!

Regards, Greg.P. NZ.

There appear to be several choices in Sharman wheels 4mm listing, including 22 spokes, you do need to check that the diameter over flanges is less than the wheelbase, Atlantics tend to have the wheels very close together. Sharman wheels has a new owner, reportedly better at quality control. Keith

Make friends in the hobby. Visit Garratt photos for the big steam lovers.