The hard and fast rules of coloured wires



Oh, I agree. I hate Part P but just wanted to point out (OK I was being pedantic) that DIY is still allowed. One side effect is that those who don't want to/can't DIY will get in the cowboys to avoid having to pay the extra fees.
<rant>The whole premise of the regulations is crap since there are approaching zero fatalities due to faulty fixed wiring. Another side effect is that instead of paying to have extra sockets installed properly people will use more and more trailing extension leads which will lead to more deaths and injuries that will be ascribed to electrical faults (ie we couldn't figure out the real cause, guv). Allegedly it's all down to one MPs daughter who was electrocuted by touching a towel rail that had been badly installed such that the fixings had pierced a mains cable in the wall. Never mind that far more people (but it's still a very small number in the scheme of things) die due to faulty appliances, overloaded flexes, etc. </rant>
Yes, I'm a miserable old cynic.
MBQ
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snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com said the following on 12/01/2007 12:46:

This is just another excuse for government (with a small 'g') to attempt to wrap us up in so much cotton wool that we can't breathe!
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Paul Boyd
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said the following on 12/01/2007 12:46:

I thought it was all because Prescott had been bribed by the big electrical contractors who are cleaning up because of Part P just in the same way as he has been allegedly bribed by the big building firms to allow unrestricted building on every last blade of grass in the country.
Im sure one of us is right.
In the meantime I have a very large collection of older cables, even including some old grey sheathed cable ... and I shall of course continue to use it up as I see fit.
Actually as we're chatting about silly side effects of this stupid legislation heres an example from my own stable.
I've wired up the back garden, I had previously set aside a rcb circuit breaker in the consumer unit to enable a seperate ring and of course obtained the necessary armoured cable and outdoor fittings. So far so good. Meanwhile the regulations changed - so rather than pay for an inspection I've sidestepped the regulations. My back garden electricts all now come out of a standard 13A socket via what is essentially a plug-in extension cable run through a door frame. Under the regs as an extension cable it is perfectly legal and doesn't require certification.
Bodge job = OK, proper job but to tight fisted to pay for certification <> OK.
This effing gvt can't do anything right - except of course squeeze more and more money out of a declining employed population.
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All the best,

Chris Wilson
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On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 16:55:11 GMT, Chris Wilson
Chris,

I wasn't just this government that created electrical legislation - I can remember my late father (who was an electrician) going on about new legislation 30 - 40 years ago :-)
Jim.
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"Paul Boyd" wrote

Yes and so it should be, this is just another example of the nanny state takiung control.
I suspect the real problem now though is that schools no-longer provide *useful* eduction including basic life skills. When I attended Technical High School in the 60s we were taught basic fundamentals such as fitting plugs and basic wiring, along with soldering and the like - now of course they wouldn't dare do this in case someone accused them of giving out wrong information and ended up suing the school.
Where will it all end up, and how long before you need your local authority to check the wiring on your model railway?
John.
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John Turner said the following on 12/01/2007 12:52:

I hope I carefully avoided expressing any opinion on whether I thought it was a good thing or a bad thing. I'm with you, and we'll be doing our own 3-phase wiring. I do at least know we aren't supposed to!

I would assume they're still taught how to fit plugs, surely! If the aim of the regulations are to make electrickery safer, then surely common sense says that such a basic thing as fitting a plug should be done properly, and therefore must be taught to ensure people know how to do it properly. Whoops - I had 'common sense' and 'regulations' in the same sentence there!

Well - one thing that has always crossed my mind is whether model railways at exhibitions are checked. The reason for that is that at one exhibition I saw some very dodgy mains wiring hanging out of a wooden box. As far as layouts at home though, don't even drop any hints about needing local authority approval. :-)
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Paul Boyd
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On Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:03:40 +0000, Paul Boyd
Paul,

I believe all domestic appliances must now be sold with a plug top fitted - so you might find some arguing that there's no need to know how to fit one properly.
Jim.
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<JimG> wrote> I believe all domestic appliances must now be sold with a plug top

Until the wire breaks!
Gaugemaster still sell transformers which require both mains and output wires soldering in place, never mind being fitted with a plug!
John.
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John Turner wrote:

Buy a new wire.

But those are transormers as components rather than transformers as finished article.
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Paul Matthews
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"Paul Matthews" wrote

And what happens if it's wired into a sealed box, which legally you cannot open? It's easier to wire on a new plug, especially as where wires do break it is generally near where it exits the original plug.

Yup, but you've still got to wire them and add a plug.
John.
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John Turner wrote:

It's ever more likely for it to plug in to the appliance as well with an IEC or similar connection. So yes, buy a new wire, plug it in at both ends.
James Moody
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aka: Major Denis Bloodnok | (\
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John Turner wrote:

True, but I have noticed that detachable wires are now becoming more common.
I suppose there is also the "bit of knowledge is dangerous" aspect. There are some people who are probably best kept away from the innards of a plug.

Again true, but I would still contend that by doing so you are clser to the area of "making" something rather than just maintaining.
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Paul Matthews
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John Turner wrote:

If they did people would simply moan that they were wasting time on "life skills" when they should be teaching proper stuff like the 11 times table and not splitting infinitives.... :-)
When I attended Technical

More to the point, these days virtually everything a normal person is likely to want comes with a moulded-on plug. In the unlikely even it somehow breaks, it is probably just as easy and cheap to buy a new wire+plug as a new plug. Now things like washers and computers are seen as pretty much throw-away items, binning a bit of wire is a no problem. I've probably got a few sat here on my shelves.
Heck, I can't remember the last time I needed to change a plug, and I'm the sort of tight-fisted sad anorak who might do so.
--
Arthur Figgis Surrey, UK

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Arthur Figgis wrote:

Actually, it's more like insurance companies taking control. The more risky things people do, the more the companies have to pay. The health insurance companies are especially eager to reduce the risks of injury. In the US, that's aggravated by the litigiousness of the average Merkin. So don't blame gummint - pols just do what their masters want 'em to do.
As for publicly paid portion of health care: I for one don't see why a large chunk of my taxes should go to pay for the injuries suffered by idjits who don't know what they're doing, or insist on their "right" not to wear seat belts, and such. Not to mention the social welfare costs incurred because some idjit's stoopid death has left a destitute widow and orphans.
So the poor pols get it from both sides... :-)
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naked_draughtsman wrote:

I think there may also be something in the choices of colours to help the colourblind.
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Paul Matthews
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On 11/01/2007 15:15, Andy Sollis CVMRD said,

AFAIK there has never been any hard and fast convention. How positive is positive? At work, for instance, we tend to use black for 0V, but red, violet or yellow for various positive voltages. Blue is used for negative voltages, or white, or orange. Then another customer may have a totally different wiring convention - one uses your Henry Ford analogy, but as all wires are idented anyway the colour is actually irrelevant.
I've long since found that what I was taught at school doesn't reflect the real world :-)
Actually, there is a convention I've just thought of. When you're disarming a bomb, you *always* cut the blue wire :-)
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Paul Boyd
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Paul Boyd wrote:

Not had much experience at defusing bombs but, when I were a lad in the early 50's, the company I worked for sold some Italian vacuum cleaners which had metal cases. The earth connection was red ! I think the live was beige. There was no standard mains plug at the time, the customer had to fit their own, very often a bayonet in the light socket. We managed to cull quite a large proportion of the local population with those things. We also had 3 mains voltages in our immediate vicinity. 110, 210 and 230.
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Ain't nostalgia grand? Stand on a chair, remove light bulb, push in bayonet adaptor, switch on light, switch on vacuum cleaner. Switch off vacuum cleaner, climb back onto chair, remove bayonet adaptor, insert bulb - and then drop bulb because bulb lights up in hand...
Happened regularly in our house. There was only one 5-amp socket, and that was used for the radio. No other plug sockets anywhere else in the house. Compare that with today: there's a bloke with a shovel at Fidlers Ferry Power Station on stand-by for when my son turns his room on!
--
Dave,
Frodsham
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But in the end he cut the RED..... and the bomb was disabled!!!
Jeff
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On Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:15:46 -0000, "Andy Sollis CVMRD"

The IEE have always been the odd men out in the mondial electrical convention. It was showing up 30 years ago when German kitchen equipment and Danish Industrial kit were using Green as a line conductor. Europe decided that such conventions as Line & Neutral plus Earth were pointless and accident prone and so why not make the two line wires interchangable? Earth connections reserved for loads of > 6 Amps. Most European Countries have not allowed themselves to be subjugated to " Authorised" "technicians" -- such as Corgi!!! We were all offered these credentials for a simple cash exchange. It was a very cynical move on the part of the gas monopoly of the day. The IEE changed their rules (how did they get in charge) so often that most electrical contractors were for ever buying new editions (of the regs) . Manufacturers could not keep up with the cable size changes and the ridiculous situation arose where wiremen had to remove some conductors from multistrand cables in order to fit them to the terminals provided in the power boxes. I can travel to any EC ( and other Euro country) and use the same power plugs but the UK is different.
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