10hp RPC runs Airco Mig just hunky dory

Ive got a mint Airco PhaseArc 350 mig welder, which is a 3phase machine so havent been able to run it here at the homestead. When I
had the warehouse, I was able to use it down there because there was 3ph. Hating to have machines taking up space that I cant use, I decided to see if it would run off my current 5hp RPC. To make a long story short..It wouldnt. (PRC is Rotary Phase Converter btw), which is basicly nothing more than a 3ph motor spun up to speed in some fashion, and then it will run on single phase 220, and it generates the 3rd leg all by itself, allowing you to hook up 3 phase industrial type equipment to it.
I had a brand new Marathon Elect 10hp 3450rpm motor kicking around so I decided to breadboard it up into a bigger RPC and see if it would run the Airco. Getting it up to speed was the problem, as I couldnt spin it fast enough with a rope wrapped around the shaft, so micky moused up a 1/2hp 110vt 3450 moter, pulley and flat belt to spin the big motors shaft directly, before applying single phase power to it. Which worked just fine.
God that big 10hp motor is loud when it runs....I could hear it 200 yrs away, Of course..bolting it to a pair of I beams, then sitting loose on the top of my welding bench turned the bench into a sounding board....aaaaack!!
Anyways...plugging the Airco mig into the impromptu RPC. I found the motor itself was idaling at about 18 amps on each input leg, and the output legs generate 240, 2399, and 233 volts across the output legs, with the manufactured leg provideing 233 volts. With the Airco turned on, simply ideling, current went up to about 22 amps per leg, and here is the funny part...at 25 volts, burning .45 DualSheild, with 150 amps indicated on the welder, total current draw only went up to 28 amps, raising the voltage to its top 35 volts...far far into the OH FUCK spray transfer mode, only raised the total amps to 35 with an indicated 250 amps of weld current. Chuckle..burning that hot was like using a spray gun, the weld looked like it was composed of nothing but tiny ball bearings, and had absolutly no simularity to a weld at all. It was a sponge.
So, I showed that I can run a decent sized 3 phase industrial type machine on single phase power, which in this case was the spare electric dryer outlet, fused at 40 amps, run into a 50' 6/3 extension cord out to the welding area (which is on its own 60 amp circuit), by making up a simply rpc.
I think however..Ill start looking for a 1725 rpm 10hp motor , as the noise and the air from the fan itself is like a hurricane, at 3450 rpm
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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Sounds great. I am also very open minded towards buying a 3 phase welder. I am sure that I could get it up to serious amps.
Some random thoughts.
I am very surprised that a "new" motor would be so loud. Something is not right. I have two phase converters, 10 and 7.5 HP, and both are relatively quiet, except when in the second one I forget to turn off the starting caps (of which it requires a lot).
You can spin up that 10 HP idler from your 5 HP idler. Start the 5 HP idler first, get it up to speed, and then plug in the 10 HP idler by means of a contactor or appropriate mechanical disconnect. Then apply load. You would have a 15 HP idler capacity RPC.
i
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On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 18:43:11 GMT, Ignoramus26409

I tried that. Let out the Magic Smoke. I just finished repairing the burned out wires a few minutes ago..and thankfully it still works.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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Gunner Asch wrote:

I bet if you worked on it you could get that idler to run a lot quieter. Make the feet *right* so nothing is twisted, nothing is loose, everything's just solid and no teeny warps. Then rubber-mount the whole bidness. I bet that would knock off at least 15 dB right there. A little enclosure would help a lot too.
GWE
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On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:59:35 -0700, Grant Erwin

Im planning on building this into a "unit", Electrical subpanel, etc. Ive got a Clausing 1501 15x48 lathe I havent been able to do much with, as it has a 7.5hp motor on it, which the 5hp will start..but it doesnt like it very much, least of all starting it in high gear.
I simply stuck this together in the most expedious fashion, just to see if it would run the welder well enough to bother going any further. LOL...since I let out the magic smoke on the commercial RPC..my shop has been running on a 5hp motor sitting in the dirt in the middle of the shop with a dryer cord feeding it and a chunk of 12/4 running to the distro panal. Rope start and plug it in quick before the motor slows down. But it worked for an expedient.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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On Mon, 12 Sep 2005 14:59:35 -0700, Grant Erwin

Is there any advantage of one rpm motor or the other? Does the slip stream angle of the dangle hodendragon perform better than the lowslide undertow of the invictus bordergary?
<G>
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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I passed up a real nice older airco tig welder because I wasn't sure if I could run it with my rotary phase converter. I have a miller double roller wire feed unit that would have fit on it perfect. Next time I won't let it get away.
Richard W.
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wrote:

Thats why I posted it to both rcm and the welding one. The subject has been a pretty regular one on RCM..but I figure some of the welding folks may have been new to the idea. 10hp should be big enough to run a fair sized TIG or stick welder.
Hummmmm maybe someone will come take the Hobart Cybertig 2 off my hands now. Good machine, 700 amps top end of programable DC Stuff. Includes a plasma torch and gas console. Needs a pedal though. 10pin hobart.
Best offer. Central California, on a cart with flat tires. <G> But it does run and well.
Cheap..really cheap.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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wrote:

Damn. Gunner when are you going to get that matter transporter working. If I had a way of getting it here I would take that Cybertig.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
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When working for SLB we always kept our fingers that the labs were working on a transport to beam us here and there. Flying for 14 or 16 hours at a time was a real pain simply to fix a head to think a way and fix a problem.. then fly back. Customer support first class for them, back of the plane for us. :-)
The other want - was a hit man - but that was easier but never happened either!
Martin Martin Eastburn @ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
Wayne Cook wrote:

-
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wrote:

ROAD TRIP!!!!!!! Its not all that far to Bakersfield from Texas. You could use a little down time. Let the missus drive while you play the harmonica and watch the world passing your windsheild.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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wrote:

There's the rub. She can't drive. Thus I'm forced to do all the driving and I can't stand to drive. It just about kills me to make the drive to Albuquerque every year to see my mother for Christmas or Thanksgiving.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
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If AAA Cooper goes to Arizona, you may get a great deal on shipping.
A guy from Texas bought a forklift from me (electric hand truck, electric lift but manual push). 700 lbs. With liftgate pickup from my home in IL, it cost him, drumroll, $250, at AAA cooper.
i

--


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On Wed, 14 Sep 2005 04:26:58 GMT, Ignoramus10314

Interesting but probably still to much considering what I'd want from Gunner. :-)
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
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wrote:

Who owes you money that has a drivers license?
<G>
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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wrote:

Unfortunately not many people. My main buddy for jobs like this definitely couldn't get away for long enough to get there and back.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
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wrote:

Welllll hell. If you can think of a trucker or someone making a round about, Ill figure out how to get it to him/her and Ill send it off to you. Since I lost the warehouse, Ive got the thing, along with a bunch of lathes, grinders, gun drill, all stored out at a buddies place, outside in the open. Winter fog and rain is not all that far in the future..and while tarping the stuff is a temporary option...lots of stuff is gonna get ruined if folks dont take Stuff off my hands pretty soon. The one lady I know who was doing runs into Texas fell off her hazmat trailer in the rain and broke her back..so she is gonna be laid up for quite some time. I figure this thing has to go about 500lbs or so, at least. It will ride in the back of a pickup just fine..shrug.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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wrote:

Unfortunately I don't know any of those. At one time I thought I might have a hot shot driver who would trade for a tool box. But I've not seen her in over a year.
Wayne Cook Shamrock, TX http://members.dslextreme.com/users/waynecook/index.htm
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I'm not sure what you're describing here. A sponge sounds like porosity. In regular spray transfer without Dual Shield, the weld looks like nice, shiny, molten metal- kind of like the stuff the cop was made out of in Terminator. You can put a lot of metal on fast which can lead to gorilla welds if you're not careful.
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It layed out a bead of metal that looks nothing more than tiny ball bearings all piled up. I had the wire screaming through the nozzel at 35 volts. About 10' a second..chuckle..anything slower with that size wire and it would burn back in a heart beat.
When I had enough fun with that, I turned it back down to normal and made some of the nicest beads with good penetration Ive ever done (which aint saying all that much..sigh)
I burned up all the .035 copper coated that I had in that mad minute, and I had to stick on a roll of .035 dual shield...70s-3 IRRC. Now I got to brush off the flux..sigh.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire. Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us) off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you for torturing the cat." Gunner
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