3G Vertical Open Butt Weld on Mild Steel - Problem with 1/8" 7018 Uphill

Here are my notes from when I got certified:

Check each electrode to make sure its coating is intact. Don't switch electrode brands during a test. Before you start welding on the test piece, set the amps and run some passes. Make sure the electrode is clamped straight, not partly to the flux. Adjust the angle of the electrode - I bent it down a few degrees. The stick should be only tilted up a little. 15° max. Sit solidly on a stool and brace your feet. Comfort and solidity. Use an elbow rest. Hold the stinger so you can easily reach the workpiece top. Hang the stinger lead wire over your left arm. Make sure the stinger wire is as untwisted as it can be. Move your arm as if you were welding a whole pass - does the wire bind? Take a couple of deep breaths before starting a pass. Check your grip on the stinger. It should be very relaxed. Don't "death grip". Run the bead as hot as you can. Hotter in a vee than on the flat. Don't go up by moving your wrist - move your arm. Don't change the angle. Keep the arc short. Any long-arcing and you undercut or lose your puddle. Keep your speed absolutely consistent. Breathe, keep the arc short, keep the angle, go straight, speed steady. Slag completely after every cut. A short piece of bandsaw blade can help. Remove any spatter completely with a small chisel. Rule of thumb: a 1/8" rod should get 6" of vertical bead.

And to make it perfectly clear, I go straight up - no weave at all. If you do weave, you have to weave very slowly - moving quickly will trap slag underneath and cause pinholes that will for sure make you fail.

Grant Erw> Weldors,

Thanks. Where did you get trained or did you practice on your own?

When you were tested, did you have a limit on the number of electrodes you could use? Were you limited to hand tools (i.e. no grinder)? I saw you mention a small piece of band saw blade. That's awesome. I never thought of that; maybe even a small hack saw blade would be good.

rvb

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17

Oh, and did you get to take your little Miller Thunderbolt with you or did you use a machine at the test site?

rvb

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17

snip....

traveling too

that even

going on

amperage up, it

and drips.

snip.....

Stop watching 'the drip', the drip is most likely slag. Stay on the puddle no matter what. Stuff it in there if you have to but don't long arc it and pull out. A shorter arc means more deposition which means it acts as a heat sink. A longer arc means less deposition and unwanted heating of the puddle. You will find that a given weldment has a limit to how fast it will absorb heat, exceed it and you will have troubles. It's called heat capacity and is measured in joules of heat. Look into that....... phil kangas You are allowed one and a half rod diameters to weave.

Telling you how to do this is as personal a thing as one man telling another on how to make love to a woman. You just have to find your own way.

If I could make any suggestion, I would say this. Go buy two new shades, one a shade darker than the one you use, and the other two shades darker. Try the least darkest shade first. You will see a smaller puddle, and remember, that's the most important thing happening at that moment. A darker shade may give you a smaller object to focus on. Then try the second one. This was suggested to me by one of my teachers, and he learned in the US Navy, and was one of the best I have ever seen. It helped me, and may help you. He also welded and let me watch pointing out the places to pause, and where to shelve the metal. That helped a lot, too, but it's not something I can transfer to you.

Other than that, I am out of silver bullets.

Steve

Rick, we had no limit on electrode count but then if you're welding correctly it should be about the same. Yes, we were limited to hand tools. The piece of bandsaw blade I used was big stuff, 1" blade with pretty coarse teeth. I ground off the teeth for about 5" of one end and taped it up. The piece was about a foot long. That's a trick that Ernie Leimkuhler showed me.

GWE

Oh no - jeez, with a 20% duty cycle the little guy would have taken a long long time to finish. I tested at South Seattle Community College where they have big banks of large industrial welders.

GWE

I understand. Sometimes it helps to hear other people explain their process. You never know when one simple little word or rephrasing of things will be the *click* that makes everything else fall into place.

Thanks,

rvb

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17

How long was the course? How much formal training time under the hood? How good a welder is your instructor and how good are his demos? Has your instructor spent much time watching you weld?

You call this an open butt joint, do you mean that you are putting a root pass into a root gap for a full penetration multi pass weld?

There are also a LOT of different certifying agencies and few recognize each others certificates. Most certifications are time limited and welders are usually able to use on the job testing to be current, pre-job weld tests are often required. IMHO, If your employer requires a current certificate then they will/should pay you for testing it.

Vertical up and 45 overhead (and especially pipe) are the toughest to learn, it takes LOTS of practice and GOOD training. This is why pipe pays best.

There are a lot of variables controlled by a welder, machine settings, arc length and travel speed must all work together and each can be varied to compensate for the other. Like comedy, in welding timing is everything, it takes a lot of practice to understand and develop the visual clues. A good demo is worth thousands of words.

A piece like that works great at breaking the slag right in the crack of the base metal and the filler rod. I used to use the base end of a 7018 when doing 7018, but changed to using a piece of hacksaw after I first saw how much better it worked.

Steve

AHA! moments are beautiful things no matter what the subject.

Steve

I was there for 7 months. A lot of it under the hood. However, I spent a good deal of it helping him with his computer (I'm a computer guy), helping on welding jobs that came into the shop, etc. I followed along with the exercises in the book and then I started working on the 3G test plates.

The demos were watching him weld and him giving a few guidelines but, to be honest, he didn't spend that much time with me. Sometimes I'd come in and he'd think I was there for MIG, not Stick.

I found myself learning from from lots of diligent practice and experimentation and other students. I think I could have gotten the same education if I had my own welding machine and the $18 book from Hobart (which is what we used in the class). There was always a shortage of coupons.

Yes. 6010 from the front to get full penetration. The 7018 fill and cover passes.

-- As Iron Sharpens Iron, So One Man Sharpens Another. Proverbs 27:17