anyone ever seen this??

Not that model and not one anything like as big as that, but I have one used in the Jewelry trade for welding gold rings ets that uses the same principle - electrolysis of water to hydrogen & oxygen - works very well and only has electricity & water as consumeables. To give you an idea of size - mine uses hypodermic needles as the tip producing a microscopic flame.

Andrew Mawson Bromley, Kent, UK

okay; the copy mentions some kind of additive that you buy by the gallon presumably to mix with the water. did you add anything to the water on your machine?

The oxygen & hydrogen bubble through a tank of MEK (methyl-ethyl-ketone) but in my level of use I've never had to top it up!

See:

Andrew Mawson Bromley, Kent, UK

Theres a lot of debate about "Brown's Gas", everything from being a miracle fuel to complete baloney. I have no doubt that the machines listed do work to a certain extent but i would be leary of taking all thier claims at face value. For a reaonably balanced look at the gas claims have a look here-

scroll through a bit, the stuff on Browns is about halfway down.

8-10 big ones sounds like an awfull amount of money for something we used to build in high school chemistry class :(. For that amount of money you'd think they'd be able to afford a better picture for thier web site.

-Howard.

what caught me off guard, and filled me with wonderment of super plasma machine was the claim of a flame temp of 295° away from the material and into the 6,000°+ on the material: somewhat reminescent of the Linde hydrogen/plasma torches...

This one never seems to go away.....

Yull Brown did not invent "Brown's Gas", nor did william Rhodes invent "Rhode's Gas", nor did any other of the popular claimants. The stoichiometric mix of oxygen and hydrogen has been known, as has the electrolytic method of generation, for over a hundred years (hydrogen: lit. 'from water') It has been used for welding almost as long.

Most of the properties ascribed to this product are pure BS, except for those that are of such triveal and obvious nature as to be ridiculous. There is no magic, nor is there a free lunch. A google search wil turn up hundreds or thousands of, mostly absurd, claims.

Oxy-hydrogen welding has been around for at least 60 years. There are specialty uses for which it is appropriate, and if you need it, you know it.

Problems with oxy-hydrogen, and no where a complete list at that, for general purpose use:

Low heat content: do not confuse temperature with heat. A piece of aluminum foil that is 500 degrees from the oven can be picked up with bare hands. An aluminum cookie sheet will give you one heck of a burn at 150 degrees. Why? the much heavier sheet holds more heat (energy). Your fingers cool the foil rapidly. The hydrogen flame is very hot, but doesn't provide a lot of energy. Useful for small items, where not a lot of heat is needed but temperature is.

difficult to control flame: The flame is not very visible.

Expensive: Due to the low heat content, these processes end up being fairly expensive. Water is cheap. Electrolytic seperation isn't. The equipment isn't. If you pay $2500 to save $100 a year, it is a loss.

BS surrounding the oxy-hydrogen process (again not even remotely exhaustive) which does make one wonder about other claims, yes? Here are some from the referenced page that are BS or misleading:

Process is "burning water": No! it is burning hydrogen.

process doesn't emit UV: UV isn't the primary concern with gas welding. The bright glare of the flame and hot material, and the IR from the flame and hot material, are the main issues. You still need protective eyewhere, like with any process where red-hot metal may spall into your eye, so it is irrelivant WHY you need the protection. The claim that none is needed is, in my opinion, criminal. (second claim on referenced page)

Flame is cool when not in contact with metal: Wrong! The flame is hot. The flame isn't real visible, though, because the color of a flame has little to do with temperature, and more to do with what is burning. Ever see an alcohol fire at the race track? no? You can't see the flame. It still burns people to death every year.

It ignites with a simple spark: Ever hear of O/A? or Propane? Why is this presented as something special?

it alows the "safe" welding of fast melting metals: I don't quite know what they mean by safe, but as for the examples they give (aluminum and tungsten), the only advantage I can think of would be the low heat content of the flame reduces the risk of the user having the material melt faster than can be controlled. On O/A, I just use a smaller tip for this.

Cuts steel with no slag: Bull. Or maybe not. Oxygen from a bottle is still needed, the cut is still made by exothermic oxydation, producing iron oxide at a temperature above liquidus. A skilled operator can cut steel using O/A with little to no adherant slag. I doubt it is much easier or harder with O/H. I wonder of the instructions have a cop out like saying it takes practice? I will say that I don't know ANYONE that has used O/H for cutting (ya, I asked around at work, which covers centuries of experience in several industries) so I can't swear there are no magical properties

It can fuse dissimilar metals: Well, I do that all the time. Usually with a soldering iron, a brazing torch, or a TIG torch. Sometimes with other methods.

Welds are "certified": By who? A weld is a weld. If the implication is that the torch can be used to make welds to a particular code, I'm curious what code? Under what conditions? Ok, lets say ASME code. That's easy. Spend several thousand dollars to wualify a procedure, and you're good to go. But the O/H process is pretty likely not to be a low-hydrogen process (Hint: it burns hydrogen, and it is likely some unburned or half-burned, as an OH radical, will make it to the weld), so it is out for anything subject to hydrogen cracking or embrittlement, at least without postweld treatment... Wait! I know! They look to me for this. I hereby certify that any weld made with their product is actually a weld, not a peanut butter sandwich, or any other lunch food.

I, obviously, could go on. At least this page isn't making some of the really bizarre claims, like it will heal wounds and neutralize nuclear waste.

Note that there are uses for these systems. The low heat content makes O/H useful for jewellery work, where the materials are often very fine and quite expensive, and not sensitive to hydrogen contamination, as well as some work with refractory foils. Oh, many other uses, as well. But not for general purpose work. Again, if you need it, you will already ave a reputable supplier lined up.

Go to

and grab some of those realmedia files. This guy is a real live showboating salesman. He is trying to sell magics to the gullible. Actually I kind of like the bandit.rm What kind of mess does that make??

Oh, notice that many of his experiments are done in what looks like his living room. I wanted to see those drapes catch fire

Thor

Battery (dilute Sulfuric) acid. Pure water is a very poor conductor of electricity. A little acid greatly improves on this.

Ted

No I suspect that it is MEK (Methyl-Ethyl_Ketone) which the hydrogen & oxygen bubble through and the resultant gas has a higher calorific value.

Andrew Mawson

Good point on the video quality.