Hey, Ernie ......

In case you were purposely not getting involved in the discussion between myself and Watson re: lifting cylinders by their caps, I would like to hear
your take on it. I could be wrong, but I think it's not a good idea.
Steve
--
Amendment I
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I would like to hear it too.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 06:57:43 -0600, Ignoramus14646

Well I'm not Ernie but here's my take on it. I'm a drop dealer so I see a lot of different cylinders come through. I can say without a doubt that I've seen lots of cylinders where the cap threads are not in good enough shape to lift a cylinder. In some cases it's nearly impossible to get more than 1 thread or some time less engagement. In other cases the cap is so loose that it barely catches the threads. Then there's the course thread / fine thread issue. I've seen the threads mixed on cylinders many times. Remember that many of the cylinders out there are old. I mean really old. I've seen cylinders made in the 20's come through here.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

My first 02 bottle has Luftwaffe proof stamps on the neck. It must have had an interesting life
Gunner
"They couldn't hit an elephant at this dist..." Maj. Gen. John Sedgewick, killed by a sniper in 1864 at the battle of Spotsylvania
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote:

As an aside, I ordered a K cylinder of O2 today, which they delivered, as I was busy. I asked the girl what a K weighed, and she said 142# empty and 153# full. Which is slightly different from Dr. Watson's figures of 105#. I guess he uses the hobby sizes.
(Sorry, but I refer to him now in third person, having filed him in the rod oven.)
I was in the oilfield, and between the salt water, corrosive "stuff", and general harsh treatment, I, too saw many a groty cylinder and cap. We would have to smack some to get them loose enough to spin off, or put a spud wrench in the hole, being ever so careful. Others we had to use a 36" Stillson wrench. There were even some we gave up on, red flagged, and returned.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote: | >>> In case you were purposely not getting involved in the discussion | >>> between | >>> myself and Watson re: lifting cylinders by their caps, I would like to | >>> hear | >>> your take on it. I could be wrong, but I think it's not a good idea. | >> | >>I would like to hear it too. | > | > Well I'm not Ernie but here's my take on it. I'm a drop dealer so I | > see a lot of different cylinders come through. I can say without a | > doubt that I've seen lots of cylinders where the cap threads are not | > in good enough shape to lift a cylinder. In some cases it's nearly | > impossible to get more than 1 thread or some time less engagement. In | > other cases the cap is so loose that it barely catches the threads. | > Then there's the course thread / fine thread issue. I've seen the | > threads mixed on cylinders many times. Remember that many of the | > cylinders out there are old. I mean really old. I've seen cylinders | > made in the 20's come through here. | | As an aside, I ordered a K cylinder of O2 today, which they delivered, as I | was busy. I asked the girl what a K weighed, and she said 142# empty and | 153# full. Which is slightly different from Dr. Watson's figures of 105#. | I guess he uses the hobby sizes. | | (Sorry, but I refer to him now in third person, having filed him in the rod | oven.) | | I was in the oilfield, and between the salt water, corrosive "stuff", and | general harsh treatment, I, too saw many a groty cylinder and cap. We would | have to smack some to get them loose enough to spin off, or put a spud | wrench in the hole, being ever so careful. Others we had to use a 36" | Stillson wrench. There were even some we gave up on, red flagged, and | returned. | | Steve | |
I don't care if it weighs 300 pounds, Steve. If the thread won't lift a cylinder, they are not safe to protect the valve.
You're all mouth and no data, and a totally clueless twit when it comes to the strength of materials or threads, or how a cap protects a cylinder.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

I'll respect Steve's experience any day over your superlative intellect. It's a pretty easy call to make when you can't even control your temper.
Plink. (sound a lightweight makes hitting the bit bucket)
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
| | >| I was in the oilfield, and between the salt water, corrosive "stuff", and | >| general harsh treatment, I, too saw many a groty cylinder and cap. We | >would | >| have to smack some to get them loose enough to spin off, or put a spud | >| wrench in the hole, being ever so careful. Others we had to use a 36" | >| Stillson wrench. There were even some we gave up on, red flagged, and | >| returned. | >| | >| Steve | >| | >| | > | >I don't care if it weighs 300 pounds, Steve. If the thread won't lift a | >cylinder, they are not safe to protect the valve. | > | >You're all mouth and no data, and a totally clueless twit when it comes to | >the strength of materials or threads, or how a cap protects a cylinder. | > | | I'll respect Steve's experience any day over your superlative | intellect. It's a pretty easy call to make when you can't even | control your temper. | | Plink. (sound a lightweight makes hitting the bit bucket)
It has nothing to do with either experience or intellect, it's a simple matter of physics.
And I can easily control my temper. I don't have to be pissed to recognize Steve is a twit. Read some of his posts over the past few months.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Steve is a highly experienced weldor who's been a highly-regarded contributor to this NG for many years.
You, OTOH, have no such credentials.
Since you obviously have little, if any, real-world experience with compressed gas containers, I'd suggest that you simply visit your local gas supplier and examine 50 randomly-selected bottles to see just how well or poorly the caps on them actually fit.
Report back with your findings.
Until then STFU.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Thank you. I've been around the block so many times, I'm still dizzy.
Steve
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
| | Thank you. I've been around the block so many times, I'm still dizzy. |
So that explains it.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
| | > I don't have to be pissed to recognize | > Steve is a twit. Read some of his posts over the past few months. | | Steve is a highly experienced weldor who's been a highly-regarded | contributor to this NG for many years. | | You, OTOH, have no such credentials. | | Since you obviously have little, if any, real-world experience with | compressed gas containers, I'd suggest that you simply visit your local gas | supplier and examine 50 randomly-selected bottles to see just how well or | poorly the caps on them actually fit. | | Report back with your findings. | | Until then STFU. | |
Better yet, until you know me well enough to realize my experience, and/or are ready to discuss the facts based on data instead of myths - perhaps YOU should just RAM it in your arse.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Stick around for a decade, "Watson", and demonstrate - here - your expertise, and, perhaps, you may be able to -earn- some credibility.
Some have, many haven't.
Steve has.
You haven't, except as a TROLL.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
|I notice that you didn't have the guts to answer my post on the same | subject. But not to worry, I won't see it. Ker plonk.
I didn't see a post from you RoyJ. Where was is it? Go there and post under it again. I will be looking.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote: | >> In case you were purposely not getting involved in the discussion between | >> myself and Watson re: lifting cylinders by their caps, I would like to hear | >> your take on it. I could be wrong, but I think it's not a good idea. | > | >I would like to hear it too. | | Well I'm not Ernie but here's my take on it. I'm a drop dealer so I | see a lot of different cylinders come through. I can say without a | doubt that I've seen lots of cylinders where the cap threads are not | in good enough shape to lift a cylinder. In some cases it's nearly | impossible to get more than 1 thread or some time less engagement. In | other cases the cap is so loose that it barely catches the threads. | Then there's the course thread / fine thread issue. I've seen the | threads mixed on cylinders many times. Remember that many of the | cylinders out there are old. I mean really old. I've seen cylinders | made in the 20's come through here.
Where are you a drop dealer? And if the threads on a cylinder are so poor they won't lift the mere weight of a cylinder, how do you expect them to protect the valve?
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Watson, I think that the point is, the threads SHOULD be good and the caps SHOULD fit.
And I am sure that in 98% of cases they are good and strong.
The problem that everyone is alluding to, is that sometimes they do not fit or for any reason threads are not strong, or the caps are not threaded properly, and if you overlook that, lifting it by cap may be fatal.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
  Click to see the full signature.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote: | > | > Where are you a drop dealer? And if the threads on a cylinder are so poor | > they won't lift the mere weight of a cylinder, how do you expect them to | > protect the valve? | | Watson, I think that the point is, the threads SHOULD be good and the | caps SHOULD fit. | | And I am sure that in 98% of cases they are good and strong. | | The problem that everyone is alluding to, is that sometimes they do | not fit or for any reason threads are not strong, or the caps are not | threaded properly, and if you overlook that, lifting it by cap may be | fatal.
Agreed, but what they insist on ignoring is such a cylinder is not safe to handle or transport under any circumstances either.
Only a fool would argue there are no cylinders out there with ill fitting caps and/or damaged threads. But these cylinders are not safe for handling or transport by ANY method unless supplemental protection for the valve is established. And only a fool would accept one from a supplier. The first thing I do before accepting a cylinder, is unscrew the cap a quarter to half turn, to assure some joker hasn't over tightened it - and screw it back down to assure the cap is completely seated. While the cap is a quarter to half turn loose you can easily feel the fit of the threads. If it doesn't feel good, find out why before you accept it. I have never been given a cylinder with bad threads personally, but had a few I made the supplier break loose before I accepted. Anyone that accepts a cylinder without checking the cap is the fool, no the one that lifts a cylinder in good condition by the cap. As I provided data in an early thread, the size and number of threads on cylinder caps will support hundreds of times the weight of the cylinder.
I stand by my very first few posts. If a cylinders cap and threads are serviceable, and the cap is seated, there is no danger in lifting the weight of the cylinder with a proper hook. If the threads or the cap are worn or damaged, the cylinder should never be filled, much less transported.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
On Mon, 10 Nov 2008 18:29:24 -0600, "Watson"

I'm in Texas as many of the group know.
I don't expect them to do anything. The caps are just another layer of safety but it's stupid to rely on them as a total fail safe. As I say I've seen to many of them that don't fit properly. It's not my doing but you never know what someone who has the cylinder in the field has done. I'd never count on the fillers for catching all of them either. Shoot one time I walked into the corner where the cylinders are stored and smelled acetylene. I started checking valves to see which one was loose. When I found it I coulding believe my eyes. The whole valve turned in the cylinder instead of the valve stem tightening. That cylinder had been filled with a loose valve.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload
wrote: | >| >> In case you were purposely not getting involved in the discussion | >between | >| >> myself and Watson re: lifting cylinders by their caps, I would like to | >hear | >| >> your take on it. I could be wrong, but I think it's not a good idea. | >| > | >| >I would like to hear it too. | >| | >| Well I'm not Ernie but here's my take on it. I'm a drop dealer so I | >| see a lot of different cylinders come through. I can say without a | >| doubt that I've seen lots of cylinders where the cap threads are not | >| in good enough shape to lift a cylinder. In some cases it's nearly | >| impossible to get more than 1 thread or some time less engagement. In | >| other cases the cap is so loose that it barely catches the threads. | >| Then there's the course thread / fine thread issue. I've seen the | >| threads mixed on cylinders many times. Remember that many of the | >| cylinders out there are old. I mean really old. I've seen cylinders | >| made in the 20's come through here. | > | >Where are you a drop dealer? And if the threads on a cylinder are so poor | >they won't lift the mere weight of a cylinder, how do you expect them to | >protect the valve? | > | > | > | | I'm in Texas as many of the group know. | | I don't expect them to do anything. The caps are just another layer | of safety but it's stupid to rely on them as a total fail safe. As I | say I've seen to many of them that don't fit properly. It's not my | doing but you never know what someone who has the cylinder in the | field has done. I'd never count on the fillers for catching all of | them either. Shoot one time I walked into the corner where the | cylinders are stored and smelled acetylene. I started checking valves | to see which one was loose. When I found it I coulding believe my | eyes. The whole valve turned in the cylinder instead of the valve stem | tightening. | That cylinder had been filled with a loose valve. |
That doesn't exactly answer the questions. Where in Texas are you a drop dealer, and how do you expect a cap that won't lift cylinder, to properly protect the valve?
But you also open another topic. If a gas supplier can't be trusted to supply cylinder with properly maintained caps and valves, who can be? In a time of litigation happy people, I can believe any gas supplier could be so incompetent.
I have been user of compressed gases continuously since the early 1970s, and I have NEVER been given a cylinder with a questionable valve or cap. Over tightened a couple of times, yes. But never in such a poor condition it would even be safe to lift the cylinder.
Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Not even a full time welder, but I have seen the same at least a half a dozen times over the years.

http://www.openmyeyeslord.net/ALookBackInHistory.htm
Scroll down about half way to the locomotive roundhouse picture. Very new looking cylinder from the 1930s that appears identical to the ones in use today. (Dial-up users beware, that page is huge.)
--
William

Add pictures here
<% if( /^image/.test(type) ){ %>
<% } %>
<%-name%>
Add image file
Upload

Polytechforum.com is a website by engineers for engineers. It is not affiliated with any of manufacturers or vendors discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.