Even higher than stick welding with an ordinary rod? Seem to recall that you posted that hydrogen embrittlement with stick only becomes an issue at thickness greater than 1/4 inch. Guessing that exception does not apply here.
Hi Peter
Could you tell me the name of the supplier in Kent please? That's where I am. I don't use much Argoshield per year & I'm fed up of paying £60 odd PA for rental. Prolly used 1/4 bottle this year. I used to be able to buy CO2 from our local welding supply shop (pub gas bottles)
Many thanks
Adams Gas
2 Bath Road Margate Kent CT9 1SJ 0800-1954445 snipped-for-privacy@adamsgas.co.ukI don't know whether they do Argoshield as such rent-free - though they do do 5% and 20% CO2/argon mixes in rent-free bottles, £64.66, and you get £40 back on the bottle.
I think they also do CO2 rent-free, but I'm not certain.
People are keeping a close eye on their business model, and it may spread, but not yet afaik.
HTH,
-- Peter Fairbrother
Thanks for that Peter. I quite often go for a surf near there, Broadstairs (I'm in Gillingham). Will give them a call before I go next time. It would make sense for me being a light user, well until I do a resto on my van!
As best as I can tell from our local gas supplier CeeKay, their propylene is IDENTICAL in every way to the trademarked name "MAPP". They just can't call it MAPP as they'd be using somebody else's trademark.
Jon
That's simply incorrect. Dow Chemical's original MAPP was a mixture of MethylAcetylene, Propadiene and Propane, while "propylene" is simply propylene.
MAPP gas is UN 1060, "methylacetylene/propadiene mix, stabilised".
Methylacetylene/propadiene mix is too dangerous by itself, and propane/butane/LPG/etc were added for safety reasons. Another afaik untrademarked name for UN 1060 is MPS gas.
Propylene is UN 1077, "propylene", btw.
The propane in MAPP was soon replaced with LPG, a mixture of propane and butane.
Dow originally held the MAPP trademark, and licensed it to Rothenberger, Bernzomatic, etc. The trademark was later transferred to Petromont (which was half owned by Dow, half by a Canadian corporation).
Rothenburger's brand of MAPP gas was different to the usual Dow-supplied product, with up to 40% propylene added and less LPG (the formula varied).
Bernzomatic MAPP gas was closer to the original, with slightly more LPG but no propylene - despite all of these different mixtures actually being made by Dow/Petromont, and all being sold as MAPP gas. Bernzomatic also sold UN 1060 under the name MPS gas, presumably for trademark reasons - I don't know who they got it from.
BOC sold a closely-related gas containing just LPG, methylacetylene and propadiene, but I don't know who made it. It wasn't officially called MAPP gas afaik, but it was widely known as MAPP, which had become a generic name.
Several other welding gas supply companies also sold "generic MAPP" gas, of varying blends - again, the better ones were simple methylacetylene/propadiene mix stabilised with LPG. They were sometimes referred to as LPG-MAPP mixtures.
I believe all the methylacetylene/propadiene was supplied by Dow, later Petromont, whose Varennes plant was certainly the Western world's only large-scale producer of methylacetylene/propadiene, and who owned the MAPP trademark.
Petromont closed down all it's operations in March, which is why it's hard to get proper MAPP gas now.
(not because of the alternative use of propadiene in plastics, which had only a small effect on the price - higher oil and propadiene prices had meant that the market for MAPP gas had shrunk, but it was still profitable. Petromont made many other products, MAPP and methylacetylene/propadiene were only a small part of their turnover).
I think that propylene is probably nearly as good as MAPP for air/gas torches, and cheaper - but it's not as good for oxy/gas torches, especially for welding, the inner flame is cooler and the outer flame is hotter.
-- Peter Fairbrother
OK, well, all I have to go by is what they told me at the welding store, obviously not the real truth! Lots of other details in your post I didn't know. Thanks,
Jon
I always thought you could not weld with MAPP gas. I've been taught that there are too many contaminants in it and your weld will get either oxidized or carbonized (can't remember which) even with a neutral flame.
I know you can braze / solder with MAPP, but the only gas I thought you could weld with was acetylene?
TinLizziedl wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@news.west.earthlink.net:
Perhaps you're thinking of Propane?
Propane - and even gasoline - can be used for cutting but not welding.
Of course, the thickness - and melting temperature, for that matter - of the material to be welded can make a lot of difference.
replying to Leo Lichtman, 6G Jedi Master Open Root Assasin wrote: Not so, the welding procedure that map was used for and quite effectively was ALUMINUM TORCH WELDING theres a company that developed rods for this, but if you can't torch weld it wouldn't do any good youd just make a mess...... I just tried it with a bottle i got from the parts monkeys exited mistakingly thinking they now carried map..... Nothin doin not hot enough..... Well guess its time to find a Cobramatic Lil Green Giant ....Anyone have one for sale please hmu tiresmoker at Gee Meyl u know the rest.......and what's this about needing acyteline to Weld ??? What is this 1955 ?? What are u going to do with the acyteline ? I know your not talking about welding with it oxy-fuel torch steel welds are inferior, obsolete and eat up enough consumables to put u in the poor house... And saying the reason they still have acetylene around is u have to have it to weld steels is patently assinine at best .. They still have it around because it's cheap to produce and because there will always be shade tree ham & eggers who use it to cut pieces, and for the Ironworkers doing commercial erections where the asme code doesnt prohibit metal weakening torch cuts .. .. So Pony Up Greenhorn who buys his picante sauce in New York City on some 7018 Low Hydrogen rods and a DC machine or a couple car batteries wired in series
replying to Peter Fairbrother, 6G Jedi Master Open Root Assasin wrote: Very Impressive you must be the brains of this operation... .. .. .. Do you know by any chance of a A/C amperage amplifier of some,type for 110/120 V A/C 60Hrz Current ?? I have an old craftsman electric push mower that ive restored and had to invest in a 50Ft 10AWG cord, and I plan on getting one more to be able to go out a little further, and i know the voltage drop will be substantial,
replying to Leo Lichtman, 6G Jedi Master Open Root Assasin wrote: Not so, the welding procedure that map was used for and quite effectively was ALUMINUM TORCH WELDING theres a company that developed rods for this, but if you can't torch weld it wouldn't do any good youd just make a mess...... I just tried it with a bottle i got from the parts monkeys exited mistakingly thinking they now carried map..... Nothin doin not hot enough..... Well guess its time to find a Cobramatic Lil Green Giant ....Anyone have one for sale please hmu tiresmoker at Gee Meyl u know the rest.......and what's this about needing acyteline to Weld ??? What is this 1955 ?? What are u going to do with the acyteline ? I know your not talking about welding with it oxy-fuel torch steel welds are inferior, obsolete and eat up enough consumables to put u in the poor house... And saying the reason they still have acetylene around is u have to have it to weld steels is patently assinine at best .. They still have it around because it's cheap to produce and because there will always be shade tree ham & eggers who use it to cut pieces, and for the Ironworkers doing commercial erections where the asme code doesnt prohibit metal weakening torch cuts .. .. So Pony Up Greenhorn who buys his picante sauce in New York City on some 7018 Low Hydrogen rods and a DC machine or a couple car batteries wired in series
replying to Peter Fairbrother, 6G Jedi Master Open Root Assasin wrote: Very Impressive you must be the brains of this operation... .. .. .. Do you know by any chance of a A/C amperage amplifier of some,type for 110/120 V A/C
60Hrz Current ?? I have an old craftsman electric push mower that ive restored and had to invest in a 50Ft 10AWG cord, and I plan on getting one more to be able to go out a little further, and i know the voltage drop will be substantial,PolyTech Forum website is not affiliated with any of the manufacturers or service providers discussed here. All logos and trade names are the property of their respective owners.