Running different utilities through same trench

Gentlemen,

Admittedly, the welding content in this post is flimsy.

Nevertheless, it has not escaped my notice that quite a few people here are imminently knowledgeable about electrical engineering and related "how to" topics. Therefore, I humbly seek your advice.

I am doing some extensive remodeling to a house on a 13 acre property that fronts on a very busy highway in my state.

The purpose of the remodeling, which will involve sweeping changes to my two electrical services, is to morph the house into a commercial building. This will most likely be a food service business.

Obviously, the state health department will have their say. However, I want to address the National Electric Code.

The subject property is beyond the limits of any municipality. Therefore, I'm reasonably certain that if it's good enuff for the NEC it will be plenty fine for the local authorities.

Imagine this: The property is a 13 acre rectangle. The broad east side of the property fronts the west side of a divided four lane highway.

Therefore, traffic traveling south comes to the northeast corner of my property. About 500 feet later they have reached the center of the property. Located on about the east-west centerline of the property, and about 70 feet west from the pavement, is my water well. The well has (had) a 200 amp service mounted on a pole. Some time ago, lightning struck the meter loop and destroyed it. More on that later.

The power service feeds the well pump. A 3/4" water buried water line meanders south southwest until reaching behind the house where it arcs to the east where it is plumbed into the house plumbing from the back (west) side.

The house is another 200 - 250 feet south and sits nudged up very close to the southeast corner of the property.

At present the transformer that serves the house is exactly on the southeast corner of the property. The drop line from the transformer runs due north approximately 90 -100 feet directly overhead my front fence line to a pole.

The service drop terminates at a second pole set in a line bisecting the north wall of the house, which is the south line of a 55' commercial driveway I recently installed.

From this second pole the line turns west northwest ANOTHER 100 feet or

more, where it connects to a THIRD pole containing a frickin' mercury vapor lamp. Then, FINALLY, the service entrance drops ANOTHER 40 feet or more, to my ancient 100 amp meter loop mounted on the north wall of the house, just a few feet from the northwest corner.

The bathroom is on the SOUTH side of the house in the middle under the gable ends which run on a north - south axis. Therefore, the eaves of the house are east and west.

A small septic system is buried just a few feet outside the southern exterior wall. The field drain lines run off to the southwest toward the south fence line and the back of the property.

Obviously, whoever laid out the service drop to the house should be tarred and feathered and hung from his scrawny neck 'til he drips dry.

I intend to install a second pole on the south fence line on a line just a few feet east of a line bisecting the gable ends of the house.

From the fence line the service entrance will go underground through

buried conduit to a meter loop on the south wall.

I am leaning toward placing the electric box inside the house in a closet just east of the bathroom. But I may place everything outside.

In any case, I will then run up the south wall of the house, into the attic, all the way to the NORTH wall of the house.

Here I will have a second electric box. From there I'll have a 125 amp branch circuit to feed the OLD electric service.

From this sub-panel, which will likely be OUTSIDE the house, I intend

to dig a trench on exactly the same south-north line as from the original service entrance pole. I will run the full 200 amps as far as I practically can, on a line STRAIGHT toward the WATER WELL.

From the water well, I intend to dig a third trench, straight toward

the second. At the point where they meet, or at least, get as cozy as possible, I intend to build a second building designed as a drive-through beverage service.

I would prefer to run the water line from the well all the way to the house. At the appropriate point there will be a stub-out to serve the future building. The electric line from the well will also terminate at or near the stub-out.

Since the area around the future building and especially, between the future building and the house, will be paved in some fashion, the plan is to cover all of the back-filled trenches with a ribbon of yellow bricks set in weak mortar, barely wider than a backhoe bucket.

The parking lot pavement, whether cement or whatever, will therefore be to either side of this "yellow brick road". Just like Alice in Wonderland. "Toto! I don't think we're in Kansas anymore!"

Obviously, while I'm in there I want to lay as many blank conduits, properly sized, to accomodate future telephone lines and whatever else, without tearing up my parking area.

Now, the question!

Does the NEC pee all over any part or all of this plan?

And even if it doesn't, does anybody who is knowledgeable about this stuff have any holes to shoot in it?

Please find below a veritable treasure trove of links to pics of the property. Free espresso for a year to all those who provide useful insight.

Thanks! Vernon

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Reply to
Vernon
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This was on my SAT test I think..... Switch to decaf....

Rob

Fraser Competition Engines Chicago, IL. "Vernon" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Reply to
RDF

I didn't read all the detail, so I'm just making a couple comments based on the subject line.

The NEC generally covers after the utility meter, the utility work up to the meter is covered under the NESC (National Electrical Safety Code). The NESC largely provides recommended practices and nearly everything has exceptions.

The utility should have a booklet available with their version of requirements for the service. An example is at:

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Generally all the utilities can occupy the same "trench", but you need to maintain minimum separations between them, i.e. a "Ditch Witch" trench won't be wide enough.

Pete C.

Reply to
Pete C.

I ran underground electric and phone to my building that is about 400' off the road. I ran them in separate pvc conduit in the same 24" wide trench. This was done to my power companies specifications. The meter was placed on the building and they guaranteed me a certain voltage at the meter. After the job was complete and inspected they took over ownership of the line and are responsible for any repairs to it. I suggest that your first priority would be to contact your electric provider to see what can be done to satisfy their requirements. I also left a fish line in the conduit carrying the phone line for possible future use. The fish line is poly baling twine. After the trench was mostly backfilled I dropped in a weaved line of the same poly baling twine to mark the trench if anyone starts digging over it in the future. This baling twine is cheap and lasts forever.

"Vernon" wrote in message news: snipped-for-privacy@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...

Reply to
bitternut

Man, you got so much you need to find out about.. If you're going to be selling drinks/food I'd say start at the health department and butter them hard- they're the ones you have to keep happy for evermore once you're going. Making them feel good is a good thing to do (been there, done that).

13 acres.. you need miniature golf, a go-kart track, bumper boats, water slide, big insurance..

Buy a skidsteer with a trencher and backhoe attachments, you'll end up saving money. A decent electrical contractor should be able to clue you in on about any questions you have concerning the electrical end of it, getting someone good and doing the job once will be cheaper than saving money and doing it twice.

Where you located?

John

Reply to
JohnM

John,

I'm in Texas. The property is between Bryan / College Station and Hempstead, Texas, about 60 miles n-nw of Houston.

Vernon

Reply to
Vernon

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