stick problem; the first 1" of the weld....

Try starting your arc a bit ahead of your target starting point, then bring it back to your target starting point. Linger there for a moment until you have a puddle, then start your steady movement. In time you won't even think about doing this, it will be automatic. That hesitating linger to allow the puddle to start isn't very long, either.

GWE

try a helmet with a glass one shade lighter

I use Grant's method with a twist. When I strike up I hold a long arc and track back to the beginning. Strike up on your joint to avoid arc tracks. You need about half a second for the end of your rod to heat up while you are moving to the start and holding a long arc. Drop to a short arc at the start point and away you go. Randy

GWE

Indeed. Exactly what I have to do as well.

Gunner

Rule #35 "That which does not kill you, has made a huge tactical error"

Also from Peter's original post:

I can see Randy's technique to overcome this, for sure. Anyway...

Can rutiles (6013's) be a bit bad for this defect - slag rolling ahead, you can see it's happening, you want to "leap-frog" it to start getting a good weld but it won't happen, you know that more and more of the weld is no good, etc. Finally the weld settles down and runs beautifully, but by then you have a weld you are ashamed of. I recognise this situation from welding school when given the task of doing a small fillet weld with on a proportionately thick plate. I associate this with "coldness + rutile". ???

Are 7018's easier and a more natural choice in this case on putting down a large fillet on thick plate - the way the slag flows? And they have a slightly higher maximum current, which can be very good for getting an assertive melt-in in a fillet corner(?) (and solid set-up enables you to maintain short arc necessary before you can use xx18(?))

Then I would be following Randy's advice about start up very attentively indeed for the same reason that I need to warm up the rod before starting the run but for the different reason of needing to avoid start-up porosity ...?

Is it true to say that rutile is good for odd-jobbing and repair work where it is tolerant of the rod being waved around (variable and sometimes long arc length) as you control heat, penetration and metal placement?

Richard Smith

:) Actually, I've switched from a shade-10 to a shade-11 a few weeks ago. It works better for me, I don't get blinded anymore. The problem is not that the shade is too dark, I can see exactly what is going on: that the slag is obscuring what is happening in the weld puddle.

I just have no way (yet) of counteracting this. I see what's going on, but I'm not in control, there's nothing I can do about it (so far).

Thanks, Grant & R.Zimmerman,

I'll give your technique a try next time. Hope this one works for me.

R. Zimmerman wrote:

Whether the problem has to do with coldness of the workpiece, I'm not sure. Because I have the problem too when the workpiece is sizzling hot (from previous welds on it)...

Last class I saw a few boxes of 7016 lying about. I may give them a try, just to see how they run. Nevertheless, 6013 is supposed to be the easiest rod around (Philips 28 brand/type). I did experiment a bit with a box of 7018 I once was given, but, me and the 7018 didn't get along well, LOL.

Yep, that's exactly it! And, the slag is not just rolling forward, it's actually building up under the tip of the rod. I don't dwell long on the same place too when starting, I think.

Not sure about the coldness; see my previous remark. Besides, the teacher managed to make perfect welds (as I was beginning to blame the machine... :) ). He used the same rod, same material, same machine settings, etc. as I did....

Thanks for your response.

Peter.

snip

Ah but it be the machine. I was in a similar situation as you a few years ago except I couldn't to a decent root pass for a vertical up butt weld. I'm very patient. Perhaps too much. After about a hundred tries the instructor saw how hard I was working and tried it himself. He couldn't do it either, even at his own various settings. It was as if someone was turning up the amperage as the weld progressed. He didn't have much clout with the college so we never did find out what was wrong. And I would always get there late and have to resort to that machine.

One day I went to the john and when I came back everyone was gone. (I found out later they went to see a blacksmith doing some cool thing.) Anyway I went back to my booth and did my only passable vertical up root. I didn't draw any conclusions then but now I wonder if it was the facility wiring --with everyone else buzzing and competing for power maybe that machine got the short end? I don't remember the brand of machine but it was a green and transformer-based and was later bought out by Hobart. The next semester they bought a whole herd of new Millers.

IMHO you should take Tom Kendricks advice and use auxiliary lighting, many/most school welding booths (and most workshops) have inadequate lighting.

IMHO, you are attempting to use a lens that is too dark. A shade 11 is good if you are using 3/16" for long periods or for arcair but for general use welding 3/32" or 1/8" electrodes shade 10 should be the darkest and IMPE I prefer shade 9 but do ALWAYS wear clear (tinted when outdoors) safety glasses under my helmet. Every layer of glass or plastic helps to provide shielding.

My personal favorite is a (shade 9) plastic filter lens that has a gold foil front filter which reflects the light from the arc and provides illumination of the weld area. These filter plates are much lighter than the glass ones and do not break when you drop your helmet. I use a clear plastic lens protector plate both in front and behind these filters as they are easily damaged by spatter, grinding sparks or while cleaning. The gold foil is very easily scratched or damaged and must be cleaned carefully.

It is important to keep any filter plate clean as welding dust will rapidly degrade vision.

IMHO 6013 is useful for very specialized purposes that require its low penetration and/or fast following characteristics, and I always keep a selection of small and very small sizes on my rig to use in the field (for jobs that are usually better done with a small wire feeder). It is not a good choice for general usage unless its use is forced by a small buzz box with limited power input (which often work best with 6013 or 7014 which are quite rightly usually considered hobby or farmer rods).

IMHO you will be better served to learn to use 6010 (or 6011 if only AC is available) and especially 7018 as these are the rods to use for the best welds in almost all circumstances. Your teacher is correct that the problem is usually 'the man, not the machine', and your technique is probably not sufficiently developed to handle a low penetration rod (6013) that is best for 'fast follow' and not for deep penetration and 'fast freeze' (6010-11).

It takes lots of practice but you will see rapid improvement with hard work.

Good luck.

I had just the same problem as you for a while. It is to some extent a characteristic of the electrode. It's much easier to get slag inclusions in a fillet when you're running 6013 rather than 6011. So if I were you I'd buy some 6011 and when you're happy with your welds move on to 6013. Learn the easier one first!

Best wishes,

Chris