ATTENTION ONLINE HOBBYSHOPS!!!!!

Hey Ed

Didn't get any the last few days...?....jus kiddin , LOL. I believe you're over reacting a bit. I've read your posts and posted to you for a few years now , and this doesn't seem like you.Must be having a bad day , and , they must have a new rule. Things do change. I do however , sympathize with you because I know some of the problems you have .

Ken Day

Personally I don't see where the phone number of my bank is anyone's damn business. Especially an on-line vendor. First they wanted your credit card type and number. Made sense at that point. Then they started asking for expiration date. Even that makes sense. But now with the special 3 digit code and now the bank phone number? Give me a break.

You want my business? Make it convenient to me! Your customer! Or in the case of Hobby Horse, former customer!

You listening Hobby Horse?

That's a new one to me Ed! I shop a fair bit online and some places still don't even ask for the extra 3-digit code. I've certainly never been asked for a bank phone number before.

I wonder what good having the phone number would be? The bank certainly wouldn't give any info to anybody other than the cardholder (I hope!), I doubt they'd even confirm to a third-party that the card number was valid.

============== Asking for the phone number is nuts. I would have entered the numbers for

1-800-big-bank; or I would have contacted them to do a little bitching.

I wouldn't just make this post.

From their contact info page Call us at 1.800.604.6229 email snipped-for-privacy@hobbyhorse.com

I think you should call or email them and let them know how you feel and tell them they have lost a customer. If you have ordered from them before you should point that out also.

If you're an RCU or RCGroups member you should write something there also.

| Why are seniors being ignored or not considered by online | businesses?

You're hardly being fair to all the other people out there with poor eyesight who aren't senior citizens. They have problems reading small print too. Why are you ignoring them?

| How so? I just left an online hobbyshop in mid order placement. Why? | Because they asked for the credit card bank's phone number. When I | was young, reading that tiny number without my glasses would have | been easy. Now....

If you give me your address, I'll buy a magnifier and send it to you. (Send it via email ... no need to post it here.)

I doubt the credit card company number is actually used for anything unless there's a problem. If you can't remember yours, just enter

1-512-555-1212 or their own 1-800 number or something -- I doubt it's actually validated.

Another option would be to put the name of your credit card company into google, find the `Contact Us' link, and get the phone number from there ...

And speaking of phone numbers, if you have stores with `loyalty cards' where you live, and rather than swiping the card you can enter a phone number, I've found that {local area code}-555-1212 usually works.

512-555-1212 certainly works at the local Randals.

Greetings

This a coming trend in accepting credit cards. I have owned and operated a good sized hobbyshop in the midwest since 1968.

As far as the bank phone number it is an extra effort by the merchant to check that the card is valid and the proper person is using it.

The three digit security number is there for the same reason. As I am a card acceptor & programer that writes code to accept and verify credit cards I am under a nondisclosure aggreement. I can not explain exactly how these things work to prevent fraud.

Having accepted credit cards since we opened the doors I can state that fraud has increased every year and in the last 5 - 7 years the curve is like doubling every year.

At this day and age every card is transmitted to a card acceptor / processor (not the card issurer) for approval. Phone orders and internet orders are a big problem area in the the merchant does not have the customer or the card present, just the numbers entered or spoken. Potential for fraud is high. Credit card orders shipped to address other than the card holders are an even greater problem.

Simply put the merchant is protecting you and himself by asking for all this information. Be thankful you are being asked they apparently are trying to reduce CC fraud.

I have a distributator that I only deal with by CC because of their fubar accounting department that asks for the bank number. I will not give this out. So I called their order entry software people as to what to enter there and was told to enter anything or just click OK on the empty field.

I am old and deaf, eye sight still ok. Try dealing with todays sales droids that keep their head down in their shirt pocket and mutter.

Hugh

businesses,

If you're a repeat customer, don't they already have your CC information on file? Call me paranoid if you must, but it seems to me that with the ever-increasing sophistication of identity thieves, the LESS info we put out via e-mail, the better. I'd think that a follow-up phone call to the business to verify your address would ensure that you are who you claim to be.

Geoff Sanders

I am extremely hard of hearing, Geoff. Using a phone has become an ordeal too.

I don't care about credit card fraud. I don't have to pay for things that I personally do not charge. Nor does anyone else.

Yes, I am a repeat customer, but it has been a couple of years since I last ordered. I was out of the hobby for a while due to illness. I'm not in their database, I wouldn't think.

I blew a gasket and picked on Hobby Horse rather harshly. My apologies to the good folks there. I will be their customer again, if they will have me. They were the only ones with the receiver I wanted in stock and with the proper frequency crystal in stock. Bully for Hobby Horse.

And yes, Dan. I did slight the folks that have vision deficincies and who aren't old farts. My apology to them also.

Ed Cregger

Merchants are allowed to keep a record of you CC numbers until the transaction is completed, meaning until the merchant has received money in his account and the monthly report of transactions cleared. That report is like a bank statement but for all credit cards processed.

About a year ago the big two CC companies changed the rules for merchants. Look at any printed CC receipt and you will notice that all but the last four digits are blanked out (XXXX-XXXX-XXXX-3002) or only the last four digits are printed. This is for fraud protection, anyone who hands you your full CC number printed out on a receipt is now violating a federal law.

About every other time I take our security Shih-Tzu (doesn't bite but barks loudly) to the vet / groomers their sales computer prints the full number and I have to get on them to call their software provider and fix it. It gets fixed until the next software upgrade when someone uses old code again.

Hugh

We are facing a crisis regarding identity theft/information theft.

One of the things that we could do is to pressure our politicians to limit anyone's ability to access personal data on our computers via operating system/software holes. Lots of features that inadvertently provide backdoors for hackers and ne'r-do-wells are of absolutely no benefit to the consumer. They benefit only data collectors for their own nefarious purposes. We should invoke the "right to privacy" aspect of our Constitution and make it unlawful to data mine our computers/cellphones/etc.

If the doors were not available to the thieves, it would make their job much more difficult. This will require a major paradigm shift for the software vendors, but I am ready for the change. How about you?

Ed Cregger

And as a side note, I NEVER sign my credit cards. Why? If one is stolen, then the thief would have my card with a signature he can match. Whenever I'm asked for my personal phone number, I always give a false one, sometimes several different numbers to the same store. It's far too easy for computer hackers or nefarious store or company employees to get and use my card information. The less information any company or store has on me, the better I like it.

If a store has a lot of problems with CC fraud, maybe they should not accept them. Just like checks. Many stores don't accept checks for just that reason. I don't have a problem with that, but I do have a problem with nosey companies wanting my life history in return for my business.

Dr.1

Ed,

Instead of ranting about it, why not call them and ask why? It may have been imposed by their merchant account holder due to a lot of credit card fraud. It may be that they get requests to call the card provider (ever been at a store when they swiped the card and had to call the provider?). Y card company monitors card usage for fraud protection. I am glad they did because they saved me losing $3000 over a cloned card in Barcelona last summer. Sure, I may have got it back EVENTUALLY but it was better not to have the hassle in the first place.

BTW, if your eyesight is getting that bad, how can you still build and fly? ;^)

I see just fine once about fifteen to twenty feet away. I'm diabetic, so my vision changes with my daily glucose level, making glasses just about useless. Oddly enough, the far vision stays pretty much the same, regardless of glucose levels.

I'm also partially deaf, so telephone conversations are to be avoided at all costs these days.

No, I don't build much anymore, just for the reason you stated.

Growing old sucks, but it beats the alternative.

Ed Cregger

Aw Ed, get over it. Get a magnifying glass and write down the number. Next time you're asked you'll have it. There is so much credit card fraud going on I don't blame the merchant!

what harm to give the phone number? That doesn't hurt you one bit but lets them do another level of verification.

You are paying now for credit card fraud perhaps? We are all paying perhaps?

...

what harm to give the phone number? That doesn't hurt you one bit but lets them do another level of verification.

Bullshit. All it let's them do is sell the phone list to any number of telemarketer organizations. And now our privacy is further invaded by these obnoxious, intrusive, don't-take-no-for-an-answer cretins!

Dr.1

Ed, it's true that some websites have small print that old eyes find hard to read. A couple of gentle suggestions:

Send the company an e-mail or even a letter stating your problem with their website.

If you're using Windows XP, look under Accessories, then Accessability under the Windows Start menu and you'll find a utility called Magnifier that might help you see that fine print a bit better.

Morris

Pay attention, Dr...it's the *bank's* phone number.