Bad day for a CD

This happened at the glider contest in Joseph Oregon, related to me by a friend who attended. One of the guys went up to the CD and inquired about the pin for Channel 39. He said that it was out and he had been waiting all day for it and he wanted to fly his glider with a high-start. The CD said that the someone must have taken the pin home with them so he took another pin, wrote "39" on it and handed it to the guy. The guy turned on his radio and crashed the tow plane that was on channel

  1. The tow plane, a 40% cub which was borrowed, was completely destroyed and the giant glider it was towing extensively damaged. No word on who was going to pay for all of this, but I am sure it positively ruined the CD's day.
Reply to
Me
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The CD has no excuse. He needs to pony up some cash.

Imagine running a contest with aero-towing available and not know what freq the towplane is on...that's just plain dumb.

Don

Reply to
Don Hatten

That would definitely be a bad day. I think part of the root cause of this would be the frequency control system in place at this contest. In the system we use, the pilot places their pin (which includes name and channel) on the frequency board. Then there is no excuse for not knowing who is on what channel when. Of course with any control system, if not everyone is following the rules, there are going to be accidents.

Is the system of "taking out a pin for a freq" common? Especially if there is no sign out to keep track of who has the pin? Sounds like a logistical nightmare to me.

V> This happened at the glider contest in Joseph Oregon, related to me by a

Reply to
Vince Hendricks

Reply to
Roger Guinn

At the two clubs I belong to you place your AMA card or club card in the slot and take the pin. That way you cal tell at a glance who has the pin. of course this is predicated on everyone following the rules and always having either card with them when they are at the field.

Other clubs use the pin with your name on it and stick it on the frequency board. I do not know which system is more poplular or which one, if either, works any better. Both are dependent on all flyers following the rules to the letter and I have seen accidents happen with both so neither is perfect.

As a wise man once said: It is impossible to design a foolproof system since fools are so ingenious.

Brian Allen

Reply to
Brian W. Allen

We use the name on the pin method since one of the older "Plank owner" PITA guys went ballistic when it was suggested that we use AMA cards. "I absolutely refuse to let my AMA card out of my sight!" was his response.

As absolutely anal retentive as we try to be about frequency control, bad things still happen. A couple of years ago at one of our big bird events, one of our long term pilots sent a fourteen year old kit over to impound to get his transmitter. Apparently, the guy running the impound was off at a nature call, so the kid went into the shack and got what he thought was the proper transmitter along with the frequency pin. The pilot turned it on someone else's transmitter and shot down a giant scale, scratch built plane. Everyone involved was an adult about it, no hard feelings but BIG BUCKS changed hands.

We had another member who we nicknamed "The Ace" He shot down three guys. Two of them his fault, and he paid for it. The third one, he had the frequency pin, turned on and shot down another plane. When he turned on the fourth time but luckily turned off before any damage could be done, I asked him if he was striving to become the first club "Ace?" He didn't think it was funny.

When they've made something idiot proof, they just invent a better idiot!

Reply to
Me

Did it ever occur to the PITA that he could make a Xerox copy of it and have it laminated for such occasions? I make up a half dozen this way, one in field box, one it transmitter case, one in billfold, another on glove compartment . . . . never leave home without it. :-)

-- Red Scholefield AMA 951 District V

Reply to
Red Scholefield

At our club, they laminate our membership card onto a piece of the thin magnetic sign stuff. The board has a steel backing and you stick your card on the spot of your freq. There is also a pocket behind the plate where others wanting that freq can line up for their turn.

Reply to
Fubar of The HillPeople

So much for the open book CD test.

Reply to
Fly Higher

I can't believe the lengths and effort people go to for something as simple as frequency control. A simple pin-down, AMA-card-up system is the most cost effective, and the most effective. When the pin's not there, you don't fly, and the card's on the board to tell you who has it.

In the two years I've been a member of my club, there has been a total of ONE shootdown using this system. At one of our fun-flys, a pilot filled out a sheet for his radio, claiming it was on 56. The big sign on his radio said 56. His radio was really on 52. He was flying around when another pilot requested the 52 pin, turned on, and shot him down. He paid the price for his own stupidity, but now our impound people check the little round silver sticker on the back of the transmitter before handing out pins.

How much time and money do clubs spend making these magnetic laminated membership cards and/or fancy personalized pins?

Reply to
Mathew Kirsch

Now, if the rule had been to put YOUR pin in the 39 spot, instead of taking a pin from the 39 spot, that would not have happened because, you would have seen the pin there, with the name of who owned it, and you would have went to inquire about who had 39 all day. Of course, if the CD said, he went home and then took his pin off....

Reply to
Rob Plourde Jr.

Hi there Don,

You are 100% correct the CD made a dumb mistake.

However, (You knew that was coming, eh Don?) his club needs to pony up for most of it. If you punish CD's for making mistakes, they will become extinct. If the members grumble, they need to choose their CD carefully. Choose carefully and stand behind them!

Bob

Reply to
Bob Adkins

Yes but, how many people make extra pins for those multiple TX's they take to the field? Or in case they forget where they placed it? Or to have one available regardless what their flying, driving, riding or walking to the field in? Think it can't happen? One individual here already admitted to having multiple copies of his AMA card just to ensure he never leaves home without it. Why not a pin as well?

Reply to
Fly Higher

In article , Mathew Kirsch wrote: | I can't believe the lengths and effort people go to for something as | simple as frequency control. A simple pin-down, AMA-card-up system is | the most cost effective, and the most effective. When the pin's not | there, you don't fly, and the card's on the board to tell you who has | it.

That's the best system I've seen, but it's still not perfect. I've seen a number of accidents with it. I even found myself once the victim as my plane went to full throttle and took off by itself while I was taxiing it out. Turns out the other guy on my frequency (with whom I've been sharing the pin), his wife put his radio in the impound area for him -- still turned on. I got control once we got away from the impound, so there was no accident, but it came close.

| In the two years I've been a member of my club, there has been a total | of ONE shootdown using this system.

I've seen more than that. Still, it works better than anything else I've seen.

Reply to
Doug McLaren

I have said it before, part of my preflight and daily checklist is to find out who is also on my freq when I go anywhere to fly. Check it every time another car pulls in. I would be willing to bet someone at that field heard a discussion about a missing pin and if the channel was clear, yet did/said nothing or even helped to make it prefectly clear that there was indeed a problem with one of the frequency's. It is well know that 2 aircraft on the same frequency cannot be controlled, but to many fliers are far to relaxed when it comes to the safety of all at a radio control field. Blame who you like, however each and every experienced flier there may possibly be blamed for the accident. rick markel

Reply to
Aileron37

Probably less time than typing out the club newsletter. Its just a laminated membership card with my name and ama # typed on it, stuck in a little piece of thin magnetic stuff. How much time and money COULD that cost once a year? You look at the board, see the freq, see a card stuck on it dont use that freq till the guy on it pulls his card. No big deal.

Reply to
Fubar of The HillPeople

I agree that this is the best method. However, I was shot down at a fly-in over the weekend while this method was being used. I went to the impound, gave them my AMA card, received my tx and pin and was shot down soon after take-off. Upon retrieving my plane, the control surfaces were moving without the tx turned on. One other guy was messing with his plane. Turns out he was on my channel. When I let him know he shot me down, he told me that he had the pin. I showed him the pin hanging off my tx and we went to the impound and found my AMA card hanging on the hook. I hear this guy is a really good fellow but he sure had a bonehead moment.

Here's the kicker- I've been shot down 3 times in the past 15 months. Each time I was able to track it down to the person using the channel without the pin immediately following the crashes. All three times I had the frequency pin hanging on my tx. You can have a great system and some monkey will go and screw it up for you anyway.

Reply to
S. Scholes

OK, here's the final solution!

Every club needs a "frequency enforcer". He needs to be big and have lots of body odor. He needs a little whip or a hickory stick. All he does is walk the flight line and patrol the back areas for Tx, and constantly ask what frequency everyone is on. Any foul-ups, and they feel the whip!

After everyone sees a few ass-whippin's, all he has to do is stand near the flight line with his arms folded.

Bob

Reply to
Bob Adkins

Why bother with a pin that can be lost/taken home. We use the AMA card up only. If a card is present, you don't fly and the name of the person is on the card.

We had a case of two people having xmitters on a different channel than what was on the xmitter. It turned out they both were on the same channel which was not what they thought they were on and it was found by accident on the ground. They could have shot each other down plus one innocent flyer.

Dan Thompson (AMA 32873, EAA 60974, WB4GUK, GROL) remove POST in address for email

Reply to
Dan Thompson

We use a club card of a particular color. This year green is for pilots and red is for students. If you have a club card it means that a club officer has checked your AMA and it is current. Guests use their AMA card that way we know they are guests. This has worked well for us for years. Each Freq has a clip under it's number on the Freq board. Works well for us. Eddie Fulmer AMA

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Reply to
Efulmer

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