Bad day for a CD

Exactly. Nothing is foolproof.

That's why the simpler the system is, the better. IMHO, the added complexity of pin-down, AMA-card-up is a necessary "evil." The pin helps on days when multiple people have the same frequency. With an AMA-card-up system, inevitably a bunch of people will put their cards up on the same channel, and depend on the other guys to be switched off while they're flying. If you have it in your head that you need to have the pin to fly, you will be less likely to switch on while someone else is flying on your channel.

Magnetic membership card: I as a club officer would have to spend several hours each year making up the magnetic membership cards. For

100+ members, that's no trivial task. Not only that, but you're also spending club money on the magnetic card stock. The club also needs to buy a laminator, or I as a club officer spend even more time cutting and trimming contact paper.

Pin-up: You're depending on each member to make up their own pins, OR I as a club officer spend hours upon hours making up pins. IMHO, we should be making the club officers' jobs as easy as possible, so they're willing to remain in office and/or people are encouraged to take on the responsibility.

Our home club is so small, we generally know what channels the others present are using, but when I go to a larger club as a visitor there is a practice I use. (Not everytime, but I realize I should.) I have a home made converter that receives the entire 72 MHz band, and it feeds the output on a suitable frequency to be heard on a commercial scanner, with audio output. I set the scanner to the appropriate frequency that is my R/C channel (after conversion) and listen to my channel periodically throughout the day. If I ever hear another signal coming in, and it's not me - I go investigating to know who is ON. Also, I listen carefully before turning on my own gear, just to be sure I'm the only one on at that time. Probably not foolproof but still better than guessing.

Olin McDaniel, AMA 30932, W4PFZ

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----------------------------------------------------- "Ignorance is treatable, Stupidity is incurable. Sometimes the difference is hardly distinguishable, however."

My club uses the same method, with the addition of the club instructors having bright yellow cards so that the students know who they can ask for assistance. Usually the instructor asks first to head off any obvious disasters.

After many years of chasing down lost club-supplied pins, we bought a laminator, and gave each member a yearly membership card. On the back is the current combination to the field gate. The member can use this card or his AMA card. We sometimes find cards left on the board...it's easy to check if the guy left. If so, the card is pulled and placed at the edge of the board. If it is lost, it's easy to replace ($1.00 replacement fee, though). I build the cards, and am reluctant to give up that duty, as I fear it would soon be dropped by someone who thought it was "too much trouble". An added bonus... the local hobbly shop gives 10% discounts on purchases by flashing the club card.

Something that has not been mentioned here, however, is the increasing tendancy for flyers to find exuses NOT to display their channel number on their radio. "It won't fit in my transmitter case"; "I can't collapse my antenna all the way"; "It keeps falling off"; etc., etc.

I hope that these people realize that prominently displaying their channel is possibly the last chance they have for someone to notice that one of the other means of frequency control, as discussed in this thread, have failed.

It never ceases to amaze me that some people can have the ability to construct and maintain beautiful models, yet are unable to construct a simple channel flag.

And remember...even if you are the only one at the field...mark your frequency. Practice it every time you fly and you will be less likely to screw up when it counts. The next guy that arrives at the field will inevitably be on your channel!

D. Anderson

| Something that has not been mentioned here, however, is the increasing | tendancy for flyers to find exuses NOT to display their channel number | on their radio. "It won't fit in my transmitter case"; "I can't | collapse my antenna all the way"; "It keeps falling off"; etc., etc.

Yes, I've heard that too.

Of course, it's really easy to take a piece of paper, cut it to a 2" square, write 33 on it with a magic marker, cover it with packing tape (to make it mostly waterproof and durable) and stick/glue/tape it to the back of their transmitter. If you want to really get jiggy with it, you can even put your name, number, address and AMA number on it too -- greatly increases the chances of getting your transmitter back if you leave it at the field.

The usual `flag on the antenna' is not the only way of displaying your channel. | I hope that these people realize that prominently displaying their | channel is possibly the last chance they have for someone to notice | that one of the other means of frequency control, as discussed in this | thread, have failed.

Our club requires it. (They also require the red `72mhz only' flag, a rule that makes a lot less sense to me. The only reason I see for it is that maybe it'll help keep you from stuffing the antenna into somebody's eye. :)

The AMA also requires both. I wonder, if you DON'T display channel #'s and a band flag and have an incident, is the AMA insurance void? Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

What I want is one that can be read from about 300 feet away. That way, someone would have to be very creative with their excuse as to why they turned on when they could see what frequencies were in use. ;>)

| it would seem to me that the tow plane should have a protected frequency | . X out the channel 39 so nobody can use it no matter what. Probably | wont happen again for a long time.

That's not a very good solution. What if somebody else wants to fly on 39? Then they just work it out with the tow plane, fly while he's not flying. He's not likely to be flying *all* of the time.

The pins/cards work well. If you have the pin, you `own' the frequency while you do. Only real problem is when somebody takes one home -- yes, you know how it is (because you have their card) but you still can't `safely' use the frequency until you talk to them. After all, they might not have gone home, but instead to the john, or to the store for a part (yes, it's rude, I know.) Or they might realize their mistake, come back, give the pin to another pilot ...

Having your frequency clearly listed on your radio, and preferably your plane as well, is important.

I can't wait for spread spectrum to save us from all this. Of course, I'll probably be waiting for a long while ...

On the other hand, I did just get my ham radio Technician license (KD5YRD, whee!) It was *remarkably* easy to do. So I could start buying equipment that uses those frequencies -- of course, there's still the danger of conflicts, but 1) I'd be competing with far fewer people and 2) ham radio people tend to be more careful about things like this. On the downside, 1) I'm competing with fewer people -- for fewer frequencies and 2) I'm also competing with people who aren't flying planes and 3) I'm competing with people who may be using a lot more power than I am (up to 1500 watts!)

I think I'll stick with the 72 mhz band for my planes for now :)

Just a guideline DR, not a requirement.

Well, Im screwed. I only have a black 50mhz flag...

Make him pay for your plane! There is NO excuse for this happening.

A couple clubs I belonged to even had this as part of the flying site regulations: Shoot down a plane when you don't have the pin, pay for replacement!

If you don't have the pin, you don't turn on your transmitter! Can't get any simpler than that.

The card-up system is no where near as safe as the pin-down system. Also, it is near impossible to enforce unless you have someone dedicated to checking all the planes and pilots constantly.

Paul, I have to mildly disagree with you. EVERYONE at the flying field should be part of the active safety 'watchers' rather than some poor appointed victum. Fairly simple to see if AMA card is in frequency slot and pin is out.

| its a cinch he wont fly on tow anyways with both on 39.

Not really, but even so, there are other ways of getting a plane into the air. Or maybe there's another plane that can be used as a tow plane. Or maybe the tow plane has a synthesized transmitter and receiver ...

Or was this a `towed sailplanes only!' event? (somehow I doubt it.)

Flat out declaring 39 `off limits' is a bit excessive.

| > That's not a very good solution. What if somebody else wants to fly | > on 39? Then they just work it out with the tow plane, fly while he's | > not flying. He's not likely to be flying *all* of the time.

If you don't turn on a transmitter unless your card is up, I don't see the difference. If you shoot someone down and your card is not up, it's your fault. What is there to inforce? Neither system is safe if the pilots don't practice control whether it's card up or pin down.

Dan Thompson (AMA 32873, EAA 60974, WB4GUK, GROL) remove POST in address for email

In article , Dan Thompson wrote: | In article , "Paul McIntosh" | writes: | | >The card-up system is no where near as safe as the pin-down system. Also, | >it is near impossible to enforce unless you have someone dedicated to | >checking all the planes and pilots constantly. | | If you don't turn on a transmitter unless your card is up, I don't see the | difference. | If you shoot someone down and your card is not up, it's your fault. What is | there to inforce?

What if there's more than one card up? Happens a lot when people are sharing frequencies. Or what if somebody removes/moves your card and you don't know about it?

The `pin down' system has the problem of not knowing who's on a given frequency, and if somebody takes a pin home, you don't know who did it, so you can't determine when/if they're coming back.

(And yes, people WILL accidently take pins home.)

This is why many sites like to combine the two ... the `pin down/card up' system. It certainly seems superior than either of the other two systems mentioned by themselves. Still not perfect, though.

Almost perfect would be some fancy setup that includes a scanner and starts squawking if it detects a transmitter on a channel that isn't checked out, or it detects two transmitters on the same frequency. Alas, it would be expensive, complicated, and likely to be stolen.

Perfect would be spread spectrum making all this unneeded :)

| Neither system is safe if the pilots don't practice control whether | it's card up or pin down.

True.

We only allow one card to be up at a time. The board only allows one card per channel. The ones waiting either keep them in their pocket or place them on the standby clip.

No one should move any card except their own unless directed by the card holder.

It works for us as well as any other system would.

Dan Thompson (AMA 32873, EAA 60974, WB4GUK, GROL) remove POST in address for email

Why? How is it conceptually different than having a cell tower close that makes it unflyable? (Or all the other reasons that a particular channel is not useable at a field.) Tow planes have to be used constantly, not when someone else is not using it. (you are in fact making a lot of people wait (all those that want a tow, which is usually about 2-3 minutes to altitude)

With the amount we spend on the hobby, is is totally reasonable for you to have a different radio module, etc. None of my radios are limited to a single frequency.