Starter question

Hi,
I am considering upgrading my starter form the Sullivan Hi Torque unit I
have atm and I wondered what the groups collective opinions are ? Are
the planetary geared starters like the Tahmazo 180 on the Singapoer
Hobby Supplies page and the Kavan geared starter and the cheapo SMC
planetary geared starter all the same with regards to torque and quality
or are they different units ?
My other option is to get a Sullivan Dynatron, how does this compare in
starting torque with the planetary geared starters ? I hear that the
switch on the Dynatron has a habit of welding itself shut if used on
24V, is there a simple cure for this ?
Thanks,
Reply to
Boo
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The Dynatron, even on just 12V, is quite a starter. I use it (at 12V) on an OS .91FX and Saito 180 with no problem at all. I investigated the Miller R/C belt reduction system but found it too expensive for my blood. For my needs, the Dynatron does fine. And I've got always the option of moving up to 24V if I get a bigger engine that needs more torque.
I guess the questions are, 1) what engine(s) are you planning to use it on now, and 2) any ideas on what you might be flying in the future?
FWIW, I offer 2 cents worth - don't "upgrade" to a Hobbico Torquemaster 180 - I did that and found it no better than a 25 yr. old Sullivan Hi Torque.
Reply to
Joe Bill
I use a geared Kavan, taped to 12 Nicad cells, so I have no wires to worry about. This unit is extremely strong, and starts all my engines, even the 2.15 OS BGX, which is my largest glow engine so far. Gas engines are much softer on the starter. This starter burns your skin when you try to hold the starter cone without gripping real hard
The Sullivan Hi-torque spins faster, but cannot nearly deliver the same torque
Reply to
Pé Reivers
The Sullivan Dynatron is a great Starter on 12v. I attempted to run it on 24v to start a large engine, but like you said the switch welded. The easiest way to fix this is with an automotive 12v relay. But I didn't like running it at 24v because it spun way too fast. It would spin the engine faster than it would fire so you didn't realize the engine was running. You could buy the Miller RC gear reduction which would slow it down and add a lot of torque, but at this point you would have spent more than if you would have just bought the Megatron in the first place.
I've tested some of those Planatery geared starters at airshows and was very impressed. I can't remember the name of it, but it was able to start a 180 engine.
Reply to
Normen Strobel
Red wrote a piece, not too long ago, about converting a starter to 14.4 volts with low internal resistance NiCad's. He suggested the cheap 6 pack sticks that the car guys use for powering their motors. It is amazing the difference that the extra voltage makes. I was able to start a friends Saito 1.80 with no problem with my Sullivan starter, on a charge that was not fresh. That was after his Sullivan hooked to a fresh gel cell would not turn it over.
JR
> The Sullivan Dynatron is a great Starter on 12v. I attempted to run it on > 24v to start a large engine, but like you said the switch welded. The > easiest way to fix this is with an automotive 12v relay. But I didn't like > running it at 24v because it spun way too fast. It would spin the engine > faster than it would fire so you didn't realize the engine was running. You > could buy the Miller RC gear reduction which would slow it down and add a > lot of torque, but at this point you would have spent more than if you would > have just bought the Megatron in the first place. > > I've tested some of those Planatery geared starters at airshows and was very > impressed. I can't remember the name of it, but it was able to start a 180 > engine. > > -- > Normen Strobel > snipped-for-privacy@zoominternet.nospam.net > >
> > Hi, > > > > I am considering upgrading my starter form the Sullivan Hi Torque unit I > > have atm and I wondered what the groups collective opinions are ? Are > > the planetary geared starters like the Tahmazo 180 on the Singapoer > > Hobby Supplies page and the Kavan geared starter and the cheapo SMC > > planetary geared starter all the same with regards to torque and quality > > or are they different units ? > > > > My other option is to get a Sullivan Dynatron, how does this compare in > > starting torque with the planetary geared starters ? I hear that the > > switch on the Dynatron has a habit of welding itself shut if used on > > 24V, is there a simple cure for this ? > > > > Thanks, > > > > -- > > Boo > > > > > > > > >
Reply to
JR
Actually I mispoke when I said I used 12v and 24v, I use the Sullivan Battery Power Pac which holds 12 Nicad Cells. So I used it at 14.4v and 28.8v The nicads definitely give more oomph than the gel cells. I used the Shark 1500mah battery packs which were about $8 a piece. When you take them apart they have 2 cardboard tubes holding 3 cells each. So the tubes just slipped into the Power Pac real easily.
Unfortunately the Nicad doesn't last as long as the Gel Cell because everybody at the field is borrowing it. :)
Reply to
Normen Strobel
IMHO If you've got decent engines and know how to prime them properly then a starter is almost always unnecessary. Yesterday I started my Irvine 53 7 times, on 6 of those occasions it started first flick, not a starter in sight (the 7th time I didn't prime it properly!).
Unless anyone can enlighten me, i've never understood why people should wish to weigh down their already heavy flightboxes with a heavy starter and fat 12v lead acid.
Reply to
MDJ
I'm with you there, the first thing I did when I quit flying helicopters was to get a lightweight flight box. No starter, no 12v battery. Hand pump for fuel, nicads for glow start and a leather glove.
Reply to
David Smith
Because when my Saito 100 backfired it snapped my chicken stick in half. And there's no way in hell I'm going to hand prop my Saito 300 Twin.
Reply to
Normen Strobel
Perhaps a bit of perspective is in order . . .
My smallest engine is a 1985 vintage K&B .61 rated at 2 horsepower, and it will swing an 11.75 prop at about 12 grand, maybe a little less. Those are published figures, not something I made up.
My Delta table top saw uses a 2 horsepower motor to spin a 10" blade at 4700 RPM.
Getting an engine to start on the first flip means you are familiar with the engine.
Hand-proping that engine means you think you're invincible.
Eddie, where'd ya put those photos ? Cheers, Fred McClellan the dash plumber at mindspring dot com
Reply to
Fred McClellan
Fair shout
> -- > Normen Strobel > snipped-for-privacy@zoominternet.nospam.net > >
> > IMHO If you've got decent engines and know how to prime them properly then > a > > starter is almost always unnecessary. Yesterday I started my Irvine 53 7 > > times, on 6 of those occasions it started first flick, not a starter in > > sight (the 7th time I didn't prime it properly!). > > > > Unless anyone can enlighten me, i've never understood why people should > wish > > to weigh down their already heavy flightboxes with a heavy starter and fat > > 12v lead acid. > >
> > > Hi, > > > > > > I am considering upgrading my starter form the Sullivan Hi Torque unit I > > > have atm and I wondered what the groups collective opinions are ? Are > > > the planetary geared starters like the Tahmazo 180 on the Singapoer > > > Hobby Supplies page and the Kavan geared starter and the cheapo SMC > > > planetary geared starter all the same with regards to torque and quality > > > or are they different units ? > > > > > > My other option is to get a Sullivan Dynatron, how does this compare in > > > starting torque with the planetary geared starters ? I hear that the > > > switch on the Dynatron has a habit of welding itself shut if used on > > > 24V, is there a simple cure for this ? > > > > > > Thanks, > > > > > > -- > > > Boo > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
Reply to
MDJ
Sure thing, notice I was careful not to incriminate myself by adding an "almost"!
Obscurities aside, i'm sure there are some good applications for starters, but I don't understand the need for those standard economy starters, anything you can start with them you can start with a twig. I was referring more to what I know, which is, at my club, almost exclusively 2 strokes from 20 up to 60 size. I don't actually think a starter has any merit in this range, unless you've got a bad arm or whatnot.
Yep, but I can think of other reasons why you should be familiar with your engine.
A useful trait :-)
These things have a habit of coming back and biting me in the arse, read the news next week: "Opinionated Man Decapitated in Embarrassing Chicken-stick Calamity".
Cheers.
Reply to
MDJ
Depends! Are you starting pylon engines or big gassers?
Reply to
Paul McIntosh
Because I don't want my fingers (or anything they are holding) to have to contact the blade of my YS .91 when I am running 45% nitro.
Reply to
Paul McIntosh
Same reasoning with my YS .91.
Reply to
Paul McIntosh
Try starting a high RPM engine like a Q-500 or similar and you will want a sterter very quickly. My fingers are scarred from early attempts to start a McCoy .29 with a three blade prop!
Reply to
Paul McIntosh
If you only have typical size engines the last thing you want is huge torque as if you accidentally get a hydraulic lock that torque can damage the engine. Also there's no need for it, cheap starters are quite capable of starting average engines.
Your question implies you think a cheap starter must be high speed, but it isn't, they're fairly low speed motors by design, at least compared to typical electric flight motors.
Greg
Reply to
Greg
I always take a starter to the filed, and it's amazing how often it gets borrowed by the "I don't need a starter" brigade 8-). All too often an engine that won't hand start will electric start, but I've yet to see the reverse.
Greg
Reply to
Greg
I am a musician, a touch typist, an artist, a craftsman, a mechanic and I enjoy being able to feel things with my fingers and hands. Those are the reasons that I use an electric starter these days.
It only took losing the tips of my left forefinger and thumb to a model engine accident to realize their value. Sometimes I am stubborn and slow to learn. This was one such incident. Once lopped off, it never works quite the same as before.
Ed Cregger
Reply to
Ed Cregger

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