Starter question

Yes it CAN be but people don't always do what they should, do they.

Also you can get to the state of hydraulic lock WHILE spinning the engine with a starter, testing it by hand BEFORE you start spinning it won't predict it happening.

Greg

No question one can easily flip-start a small two stroke, and indeed the need to use a starter is not as obvious.

A parallel is medicine. I'm no medic, but have a number of friends who are.

One of the things I've learned just by being around these folks is that in this day and age a medical-type who breaks protocol is asking for trouble, particularly with respect to "sharps" and AIDS.

Last couple of years, during my annual physicals and quarterly BP checks (yes, I'm that old), the nurses aides seem to have fallen into the trap mentioned by my few medical friends - knowing the patient is not ill and merely there for a routine check up is _not a valid reason_ to break the glove/sharps protocols.

It was ok by me, because it meant they finally managed to remember me out of hundreds of patients.

I specifically asked my charge nurse friend about it, and her response was >do not let those folks >>touch

Indeed.

The starter does two things - one is that it lets you keep the expensive bits well away from the prop.

The other thing a starter does well is provide you with something more substantial than a chicken stick to >feed< that prop in the event that the model gets loose with you parked directly in front of it.

Eddie, where _are_ those pictures ?

[I think it was Eddie Fulmer who posted some photos of exactly that sort of accident. Two guys fahting about with a large-ish engine. One of them on the side of the fuse, the other in front doing the grunt work.

IIRC the engine fired up and testing was begun, at which point the

got the guy in front of the model, and then the engine hauled around to the side of the model and got the other guy too. Neither was injured badly, and the engine was ultimately restrained by the throttle cable.

The photos showed some fair amount of none-too-pretty needlework on the two hapless gents.]

Point is, you never know when something will go wrong; the only thing Murphy assures us is that it will go wrong and do so at the worst possible time.

It would have taken a bit of mind presence to stuff a starter cone back on the spinner and restrain the engine, but I _have_ known folks quick enough to get it done without injuring themselves.

I figger the best I might do would be to drop the starter in the engine's path and depart stage left soonest.

Much rather have more on hand to feed a manic engine than a chicken stick and my shirt.

Cheers, Fred McClellan the dash plumber at mindspring dot com

Do you own a high performance larger four stroke? If not, then you don't know anything about starting them and the dangers.

What he said!

Indeed I do not, but that's not what i'm talking about.

psychological

Good choice. I have been using a Hobbico Delux starter for about 10 years. It has started everything from .049 CL Speed engines to a twin Enya VT240 (VF 480?).

Should the truth be known, I would prefer the use of nearly anything to flip the prop, over sticking one's fingers in the prop arc.

I too have used chicken sticks, bare fingers, pieces of hose, etc. I even got away with a few decades of bare handed starting with little injury. In those days, I thought only lightweights used starters and chickensticks. And before someone brings it up, yes, I am aging and that must be factored in too. The bad news is, all of you reading this are aging too.

I have seen chicken sticks get hammered by a prop and then fly out of the pit area. Once a ballistic chicken stick came very close to another modeler's face.

We all know that virtually any starting technique/appliance carries risk associated with it. So I'm not trying to say that chickensticks and fingers are bad and that electric starters are the only answer.

I once broke the cowl cheek off of my Kaos .60 while using an electric starter and a very energetic battery. I wasn't centered on the spinner nut and the starter took off sideways. No one was hurt, but I sure felt foolish while looking at my damaged model.

I have had starter rubber inserts fly out of the starter and bean a helper. No injury occurred, but that was just luck.

The point being that there is no absolutely safe way to start a glow engine because things can and do happen that are unforseen. Why tempt fate by putting one's hand in the prop arc? It makes no sense.

Gasoline fueled engines are another matter entirely, although I still feel very respectful around them.

Ed Cregger

Refer to my post above, which you replied to:-

There is technically, in my opinion, no need for a starter in these applications, that's all.

I totally agree, at the end of the day choose the method you feel safest with, this is pretty much NEVER bare hands!!

psychological

I agree, Ed. 25 years ago, I was starting my first R/C engine, a Picco .45, when it backfired and bit the top of my index fingernail. Didn't do anything but bruise me, (whew!), but the next day I went out and bought a starter and battery. It's cheap insurance.

I've seen chicken sticks broken, and flying. I've also seen starter cones pushed into the prop, and used to stop the engine.

You're right, there IS NO totally safe method to start any engine. But, there ARE methods to make it MORE SAFE. I cringe when I see giant scalers hand-propping a 3W twin, or the like, swinging a 24"+ Menz (read: sword) prop. I also cringe when I see someone hand flip a Cox .049 with a nylon 6-3. Us old-timers KNOW how fast THAT little prop turns, and how hard it bites!

There are many things in our sport that are dangerous. It's up to us, as responsible modelers, to exercise safety at all times, AND to teach newbies the SAFE methods.

Use a chicken stick or starter. Make all adjustments from behind the engine. Utilize a helper/holder. NEVER fly alone. Have a fire extinguisher around when modeling with gas engines. Have a first aid kit, and the knowlege to use it.

In the shop, use eye shields and ear muffs. Use the guards that came with your power tools. Use only SHARP blades (if you ask, I'll explain that one). Never build in sandals or barefoot. Always remember that CA bonds skin INSTANTLY! Use a respirator if necessary. I distinctly remember doping CL planes in the basement when I was a teen, and coming upstairs higher than the plane EVER flew! I'm sure there are other things to remember, but I forgot them. :) Dr.1 Driver "There's a Hun in the sun!"

Heh. Some 15 years ago, I kept burning up starters on my gas boat. A machinist friend fitted a starter cone onto a Chevy car starter motor. It weighed some 25 pounds, but would start ANYTHING. It was more of a pratical joke, but I did use it a few times out of spite.

I agree, there is no NEED for them. Some of us just prefer not to add any more statistical chance of being injured by props or flying chicken sticks.

For the rest of the macho types, be my guest!

Fred,

Couldn't agree more with your comments. More than 50 yrs. ago I accumulated enough finger/hand scars starting those glow engined free flight U/C engines.

I religiously use electric starter(s) for all my engines, whether they be glow or gasoline.

Best regards,

I've seen several cowls broken with chicken sticks, and needle valve. Tt usually happens when an engine is being stubborn and the owner is getting a sweat on, style gives way to brute force and that's that.

Greg