sometimes it says grid too dense, sometimes not.
sometimes the tool bar is grayed out even though the grid is on.
I have zoomed down to much smaller than my limits but will reset my limits
and see what happens.
Sorry. I am truly a complete novice. I plead for you to be patient with me.
I do think that what I mean is that the grid only shows up when the Model
mode is tiled......would that be correct?
The book that I am reading "Inside AutoCAD 14" uses the terminology
"Tilemode". I think that I understand this to mean that when "Tilemode" is
turned on (1) you only work in model mode and don't have the viewports
visible to work in and only work on the 'model' when "Tilemode" is turned
on. That is the only time that I see the grid is when the Model mode is
"Tiled". I hope I get this right so I don't offend you.
There is no such thing as "model mode", so it can't be tiled or anything
else but a misnomer. I would say, "when TILEMODE is on or 0", but the point
about the grid isn't actually correct.
The grid in paperspace will show in paperspace within the current limits if
GRID is set to on in paperspace. The grid in modelspace will show (within
the current limits of modelspace) in a floating (paperspace) viewport,
created with the MVIEW command, if GRID is set to on in that viewport. You
can actually set acad so that both grids show and have different spacings. I
don't normally show the grid or snap to it in my work.
That is correct usage. Follow their lead. Do they ever use the terms "model
mode" or "in tile mode", etc.?
There is no such thing as "model mode". You can only work in *modelspace*
when TILEMODE is on. When TILEMODE is on, you can have multiple viewports
but only the "tiled" variety, created with the VPORTS command. With TILEMODE
set to on or 1, try the VPORTS command, use the 2,3,or 4 option and you may
understand why the terminology is what it is. These are tiled viewports, and
the only kind you can have here (modelspace). There can be no screen space
between the viewports.
Now set TILEMODE to off or 0, issue the command PSPACE to make sure that
paperspace is the active space, then use the MVIEW command to create a
floating viewport. This is the only kind you can get here (paperspace).
There can be screen space between the viewports and they can even overlap.
Have you read "Chapter 12 -- Layout and Plotting" in your help file? If not
One more thing: you can't offend me with any of this stuff.
Thank you for making it much clearer. For some reason that concept has been
difficult for me to get into my head. I've just started working with acad
seriously and most things make sense but I'm just struggling with that one
concept of the difference between modelspace and tilemode on and off. I will
get in drilled in though.
I will try looking at getting the grid to show in paperspace. I do have
viewports in paperspace at this time and when I am in modelspace I don't see
the grid but will play with my limits and see what happens.
grid can be on or off
grid has spacing - which may be too dense to display
grid shows only within limits
(don't try snapping, at this point)
think of tilemode as asociated with viewports, not model and paper
space. that might help. think of paper space as a piece of paper, and
viewports in paper space as windows that look at the model - which is in
it's kind of an extended concept.
back in the day, with pencil and T-bar, mechanical drawings had
(usually) 3 views; top, right and left. you drew the top view and
extended lines to help create the other views. that's how they taught
drafting when I was in school.
views, in autocad grew out of that concept. except there was only one
model. all your editing affected all three views at the same time. but
if you were already trained to draw the views, it made sense right off.
then things got "better". more sophisticated. better tools, people
started doing more stuff.
it's just not intuitive if you did not start with a pencil, 100 years
THERE IS A GRID IN PAPER SPACE AND A GRID IN MODEL SPACE.
you can get "grid too small to display" message when you go to paper
space if the grid in one viewport (paper space viewport) is set too small.
I don't use the grid. I don't know what it would do for me. but I leave
the grid ON in paper space out of habit. it's a visual reminder to me.
so, I'm quirky.
if you just leave the grid off, and that might be wise if you have no
particular use for it, the error messages won't be a bother.
in paper space, viewports can be non rectangular and can overlap.
think of tilemode and paper v.s. model like on/off freeze/thaw for
layers. you only really need to grasp one concept. in paperspace,
tilemode is set to 1, and viewports are all in a 2d space (paper).
in model space, viewports are like divisions of your screen, and they
must fill the screen with no "white space".
if you're not confused yet......
draw in model space, print from paper space.
draw your model full scale, and scale through a paperspace viewport to
get a representation of you model at a size that will fit the paper you
want to print on. you can overlap paperspace viewports in paper space to
make the presentation of the paper more pleasing without effecting the
paper space is like a scrapbook. you take pictures of your model from a
particular perspective at a particular scale, and you can drag them
around (overlapping if need be) wherever you please on your paper.
model space viewports, kind of an out of date concept because I think
anything you can do with them you could do in paper space - but there
are infinate things they CAN'T do. they are just similar to an old way
of thinking that many older draftmen are very comfortable with.....
I understand viewports in paperspace and modelspace
I took drafting for 3 yrs in highschool in the early 60's and one year of
Arcitectual school at the university in 1970, but had to work to make a
living so I could eat.....well the rest is history....I never got back to
arcitectual school...oh well, I did ok. Now I am retired and want to draw my
own hous plans and have a lot to learn and format to figure out.
All that makes sense and I am able to have three views on the model space to
see what is going on.
I still haven't been able to get the grid to show in paperspace or model
space but will play around some more
I was using the grid to lay out the in slab radiant heat tubing.
When I have tilemode set to (1) "on" I only have one viewport. I think that
is where I am having the conceptual problem of separating tilemode from
If I created more viewports in modelspace I think that I could switch
between them(?) using tilemode (1) and tilemode(0), what I find is that when
I am in tilemode(1) everything that distracts and fills the screen is gone
and all I have to work on is the model in the one viewport that I have that
fills the entire screen......am I on the right track? When I am in
tilemode(0) I can see all my viewports.
Less confused......I just spent an hour and a half playing with paperspace,
modelspace and tilemode on and off.
I created 2 viewports in paperspace and then went to modelspace and my two
viewport were there as in paperspace and the grid worked in both; then I
went to tilemode and made 3 viewports and set each one to a different 3D
view and everything worked there also so I am now much more clear on the
I was using the grid to lay out the in slab radiant heat tubing.
something I want you to try. radiant slab is FUN.
you want a total length of pipe per zone.
I like to draw one line, offset it repeatedly, and fillet the ends
together. don't know if I am communicating very well, but...
then I draw the supply end of the loop and the return end, and fillet
them to connect. for the parallel lines, the radius does not matter. for
the rest you need a gentle bend appropriate for the tubing. polyline
edit >> join them all together, and when you list the puppy she'll give
you the total length of pipe - which you need to do the design.
those were fun to draw. used them in fire stations in the apparatus
rooms. good design.
but using the grid to layout piping in the floor, I would think, is the
hard way. up to you.
as far as viewports. maybe the shortest path to illuniation for you
would be to (save file under different name and) erase everything in
paperspace. the set model space to have only one view. use MVIEW to
create whatever views you want in paper space. work in model space and
appreciate the "drawing" of the model entirely from paper space.
14 doesn't do multiple paperspace layouts, if memory serves. I would
find that inconvenient in my "office environment".
that's right, I used to have a complicated layer system to manage
viewports for multiple pages in paper space. glad those days are gone.
but I think if you use viewports as a viewing tool in paper space and do
your actual drafting in model space it will be much simpler, and you
should catch on much quicker. YOU CAN ALWAYS ADD COMPLEXITY.
I'll be around this weekend.
I just show them square on my drawing but know that they will have a 1'
radius bend in application.
" polyline edit >> join them all together" , and when you list the puppy
I haven't figured out how to get the total length of pipe yet so your "
polyline edit >> join them all together" suggestion may be exactly what it
was that I was looking for. But being a complete and utter novice I'm not
quite clear on your instruction here.....I type in the command line
"polyline edit" and hit the enter? to join them all together? I'm sorry that
I don't have the AutoCAD jargon down well enough so it seems a little
criptic to me.
I'm a retired fireman.....just retired June 28th after 33 1/2 years.
Well it didn't seem all that bad. only took a few min. to lay it out using
the grid as a guide.
Yes it is inconvenient...I would love to have multiple paperspace layouts!
Is/are there any good places on the net where I can get some info on
creating multiple pages in paperspace....even if it is draconian, it would
be helpful for me as I am not likely to ever upgrade to a newer AutoCAD.
I went to tools/inquiry/list....selected all the line segments and hit the
enter. I got all the individual listings of how long each segment was but
not a total. So is there a way to make all the segments into one line and
then the list feature will give me the total length?
Then I went to Modify/object/polyline and selected all the segments and it
would not make them all one line so I could measure them. Apparently there
is still something that I'm still not grasping.
It never occurred to me, so I fooled around with that.
In paperspace you can have ELEV< or > 0. You can have THICKNESS. You can
create 3d solids. You can rotate the UCS around the horizontal axes, but you
can't use PLAN, or DVIEW, VPOINT or anything that gives a view other than
perpendicular to the XY plane. So it's not exactly purely a 2d space....more
like a crippled 3d space.
If you want the MSPACE grid to show in a PSPACE port, you have to 'enter'
the port's MSPACE, and turn on the grid from within the port. The visibility
of the grid in a port is tied to individual ports, whether they are PSPACE
or MSPACE ports. You could have it on in some and off in others. With
TILEMODE on you can turn it on when you have a single (default) port, but
when you create other ports (VPORTS command) the grid will have to be turned
on in the new individual ports (except for the #1 port). Most users don't
think of the default single 'working area' as a port but it is one.
I get the impression that you have been trying to do the bulk of your
drafting with TILEMODE=0, in floating ports. I do this only occasionally,
usually to avoid a bunch of layer management when ticking off a list of
small and disparate changes to a drawing. As a rule I work the model with
TILEMODE=1, and suggest that you might try that if you aren't already.
When it comes time to worry about plotting, I'll flip to paperspace and do a
bit of work there related to the plots. It might involve a bit of MSPACE
work a well, but not much. Working in MSPACE with TILEMODE=0 is slow and
requires extra steps, especially when panning or zooming, which I find
acceptable for short periods-but then, I'm not retired, and I'm trying to go
as fast as I can.
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