grid not showing

The grid only displays within what is defined as your LIMITS.

Does AutoCAD give you any message about displaying the grid?

sometimes it says grid too dense, sometimes not. sometimes the tool bar is grayed out even though the grid is on.

I have zoomed down to much smaller than my limits but will reset my limits and see what happens.

Thanks Mike

OK.....got it; it only shows up in tile mode, not visible in model or paper space.

Thanks Mike

You're doing it again, Mike.

Sorry. I am truly a complete novice. I plead for you to be patient with me. I do think that what I mean is that the grid only shows up when the Model mode is tiled......would that be correct? The book that I am reading "Inside AutoCAD 14" uses the terminology "Tilemode". I think that I understand this to mean that when "Tilemode" is turned on (1) you only work in model mode and don't have the viewports visible to work in and only work on the 'model' when "Tilemode" is turned on. That is the only time that I see the grid is when the Model mode is "Tiled". I hope I get this right so I don't offend you.

Thanks Mike

I give up. ___

There is no such thing as "model mode", so it can't be tiled or anything else but a misnomer. I would say, "when TILEMODE is on or 0", but the point about the grid isn't actually correct.

The grid in paperspace will show in paperspace within the current limits if GRID is set to on in paperspace. The grid in modelspace will show (within the current limits of modelspace) in a floating (paperspace) viewport, created with the MVIEW command, if GRID is set to on in that viewport. You can actually set acad so that both grids show and have different spacings. I don't normally show the grid or snap to it in my work.

That is correct usage. Follow their lead. Do they ever use the terms "model mode" or "in tile mode", etc.?

.... There is no such thing as "model mode". You can only work in *modelspace* when TILEMODE is on. When TILEMODE is on, you can have multiple viewports but only the "tiled" variety, created with the VPORTS command. With TILEMODE set to on or 1, try the VPORTS command, use the 2,3,or 4 option and you may understand why the terminology is what it is. These are tiled viewports, and the only kind you can have here (modelspace). There can be no screen space between the viewports.

Now set TILEMODE to off or 0, issue the command PSPACE to make sure that paperspace is the active space, then use the MVIEW command to create a floating viewport. This is the only kind you can get here (paperspace). There can be screen space between the viewports and they can even overlap.

Have you read "Chapter 12 -- Layout and Plotting" in your help file? If not press F1.

One more thing: you can't offend me with any of this stuff.

Thank you for making it much clearer. For some reason that concept has been difficult for me to get into my head. I've just started working with acad seriously and most things make sense but I'm just struggling with that one concept of the difference between modelspace and tilemode on and off. I will get in drilled in though. I will try looking at getting the grid to show in paperspace. I do have viewports in paperspace at this time and when I am in modelspace I don't see the grid but will play with my limits and see what happens.

Thanks Mike

I understand viewports in paperspace and modelspace

I took drafting for 3 yrs in highschool in the early 60's and one year of Arcitectual school at the university in 1970, but had to work to make a living so I could eat.....well the rest is history....I never got back to arcitectual school...oh well, I did ok. Now I am retired and want to draw my own hous plans and have a lot to learn and format to figure out.

All that makes sense and I am able to have three views on the model space to see what is going on.

I still haven't been able to get the grid to show in paperspace or model space but will play around some more

I was using the grid to lay out the in slab radiant heat tubing.

OK!

When I have tilemode set to (1) "on" I only have one viewport. I think that is where I am having the conceptual problem of separating tilemode from modelspace. If I created more viewports in modelspace I think that I could switch between them(?) using tilemode (1) and tilemode(0), what I find is that when I am in tilemode(1) everything that distracts and fills the screen is gone and all I have to work on is the model in the one viewport that I have that fills the entire screen......am I on the right track? When I am in tilemode(0) I can see all my viewports.

Less confused......I just spent an hour and a half playing with paperspace, modelspace and tilemode on and off. I created 2 viewports in paperspace and then went to modelspace and my two viewport were there as in paperspace and the grid worked in both; then I went to tilemode and made 3 viewports and set each one to a different 3D view and everything worked there also so I am now much more clear on the settings.

Thanks all for your help

Mike

permutations.

grid can be on or off grid has spacing - which may be too dense to display grid shows only within limits (don't try snapping, at this point)

think of tilemode as asociated with viewports, not model and paper space. that might help. think of paper space as a piece of paper, and viewports in paper space as windows that look at the model - which is in model space.

it's kind of an extended concept.

back in the day, with pencil and T-bar, mechanical drawings had (usually) 3 views; top, right and left. you drew the top view and extended lines to help create the other views. that's how they taught drafting when I was in school.

views, in autocad grew out of that concept. except there was only one model. all your editing affected all three views at the same time. but if you were already trained to draw the views, it made sense right off.

then things got "better". more sophisticated. better tools, people started doing more stuff.

it's just not intuitive if you did not start with a pencil, 100 years ago.....

THERE IS A GRID IN PAPER SPACE AND A GRID IN MODEL SPACE. you can get "grid too small to display" message when you go to paper space if the grid in one viewport (paper space viewport) is set too small.

I don't use the grid. I don't know what it would do for me. but I leave the grid ON in paper space out of habit. it's a visual reminder to me. so, I'm quirky.

if you just leave the grid off, and that might be wise if you have no particular use for it, the error messages won't be a bother.

OK?

in paper space, viewports can be non rectangular and can overlap. think of tilemode and paper v.s. model like on/off freeze/thaw for layers. you only really need to grasp one concept. in paperspace, tilemode is set to 1, and viewports are all in a 2d space (paper). in model space, viewports are like divisions of your screen, and they must fill the screen with no "white space".

if you're not confused yet......

draw in model space, print from paper space. draw your model full scale, and scale through a paperspace viewport to get a representation of you model at a size that will fit the paper you want to print on. you can overlap paperspace viewports in paper space to make the presentation of the paper more pleasing without effecting the model.

paper space is like a scrapbook. you take pictures of your model from a particular perspective at a particular scale, and you can drag them around (overlapping if need be) wherever you please on your paper.

model space viewports, kind of an out of date concept because I think anything you can do with them you could do in paper space - but there are infinate things they CAN'T do. they are just similar to an old way of thinking that many older draftmen are very comfortable with.....

cheers.

I was using the grid to lay out the in slab radiant heat tubing.

oooohh...

something I want you to try. radiant slab is FUN.

you want a total length of pipe per zone. I like to draw one line, offset it repeatedly, and fillet the ends together. don't know if I am communicating very well, but...

then I draw the supply end of the loop and the return end, and fillet them to connect. for the parallel lines, the radius does not matter. for the rest you need a gentle bend appropriate for the tubing. polyline edit >> join them all together, and when you list the puppy she'll give you the total length of pipe - which you need to do the design.

those were fun to draw. used them in fire stations in the apparatus rooms. good design.

but using the grid to layout piping in the floor, I would think, is the hard way. up to you.

as far as viewports. maybe the shortest path to illuniation for you would be to (save file under different name and) erase everything in paperspace. the set model space to have only one view. use MVIEW to create whatever views you want in paper space. work in model space and appreciate the "drawing" of the model entirely from paper space.

14 doesn't do multiple paperspace layouts, if memory serves. I would find that inconvenient in my "office environment".

that's right, I used to have a complicated layer system to manage viewports for multiple pages in paper space. glad those days are gone.

but I think if you use viewports as a viewing tool in paper space and do your actual drafting in model space it will be much simpler, and you should catch on much quicker. YOU CAN ALWAYS ADD COMPLEXITY.

I'll be around this weekend.

cheers

I just show them square on my drawing but know that they will have a 1' radius bend in application.

" polyline edit >> join them all together" , and when you list the puppy she'll give

I haven't figured out how to get the total length of pipe yet so your " polyline edit >> join them all together" suggestion may be exactly what it was that I was looking for. But being a complete and utter novice I'm not quite clear on your instruction here.....I type in the command line "polyline edit" and hit the enter? to join them all together? I'm sorry that I don't have the AutoCAD jargon down well enough so it seems a little criptic to me.

I'm a retired fireman.....just retired June 28th after 33 1/2 years.

Well it didn't seem all that bad. only took a few min. to lay it out using the grid as a guide.

Yes it is inconvenient...I would love to have multiple paperspace layouts!

Is/are there any good places on the net where I can get some info on creating multiple pages in paperspace....even if it is draconian, it would be helpful for me as I am not likely to ever upgrade to a newer AutoCAD.

Thanks Mike

OK, Roy; I went to tools/inquiry/list....selected all the line segments and hit the enter. I got all the individual listings of how long each segment was but not a total. So is there a way to make all the segments into one line and then the list feature will give me the total length?

Then I went to Modify/object/polyline and selected all the segments and it would not make them all one line so I could measure them. Apparently there is still something that I'm still not grasping.

Thanks Mike

If you want the MSPACE grid to show in a PSPACE port, you have to 'enter' the port's MSPACE, and turn on the grid from within the port. The visibility of the grid in a port is tied to individual ports, whether they are PSPACE or MSPACE ports. You could have it on in some and off in others. With TILEMODE on you can turn it on when you have a single (default) port, but when you create other ports (VPORTS command) the grid will have to be turned on in the new individual ports (except for the #1 port). Most users don't think of the default single 'working area' as a port but it is one.

I get the impression that you have been trying to do the bulk of your drafting with TILEMODE=0, in floating ports. I do this only occasionally, usually to avoid a bunch of layer management when ticking off a list of small and disparate changes to a drawing. As a rule I work the model with TILEMODE=1, and suggest that you might try that if you aren't already.

When it comes time to worry about plotting, I'll flip to paperspace and do a bit of work there related to the plots. It might involve a bit of MSPACE work a well, but not much. Working in MSPACE with TILEMODE=0 is slow and requires extra steps, especially when panning or zooming, which I find acceptable for short periods-but then, I'm not retired, and I'm trying to go as fast as I can.

It never occurred to me, so I fooled around with that.

In paperspace you can have ELEV< or > 0. You can have THICKNESS. You can create 3d solids. You can rotate the UCS around the horizontal axes, but you can't use PLAN, or DVIEW, VPOINT or anything that gives a view other than perpendicular to the XY plane. So it's not exactly purely a 2d space....more like a crippled 3d space.