S7 vs H13

The battle rages around the Mpls/St.Paul area. I use S1, Atlantic 33 and S7 for my stuck cold and hot tools. The guys around here who use H13 won't hardly even talk to the rest of us anymore. The only "negatives" I have heard about H13 are:

1. If you DO try to quench when hot, you destroy the tool (cracks or shatters?). This isn't a problem if you remember NOT to quench, and of course, you don't NEED to unless the tool gets too hot to hold.
2. I have heard that in some applications an H13 tool can bend when hot, a trait not usually associated with struck tools in hot work that I know of. These are just my observations.

A month ago I had to drift some 3/16 tapered holes in a 5/8" square bar. I made the drift out of 6" of 1/2" diameter S7 and hardened it, no temper. I predrilled the holes to 1/8" and then drifted them out, hot. After 18 holes, the punch was in perfect shape, with no tendancy to stick. This is just an example of S7 use.

I hope you get many responses to your inquiry, since I am almost out of Atlantic 33 Flutagon. I might be forced to try some H13 so my old friends will talk to me again.

Pete Stanaitis

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brad wrote:

To some extent Pete is right on, but only about the battle rages on part.

Actually if you look up the tech sheet for H13, you would find that it is an oil hardening steel. I quench in ATF or 90 wt. gear oil heated to

160-180 degrees, then the rest of the way in still above 60 degrees.

Temper, heating from the struck end until the color begins to move up the tool. I stop the temper at around dark straw to brown by putting the tool back into hot oil at 160-180 degrees.

For more info. on H13 check out

Orvar 2 Microdized Orvar 2 Microdized is a Cr-Mo-V alloyed tool steel (AISI H13 ) with good high temperature strength and hot wear resistance. This material is widely used in aluminum extrusion applications. The dimension programme of round sizes is high. This material conforms to W. Nr. 1.2344 / AISI H13 / EN X40CrMoV5-1.

Orvar Supreme (H13 Premium) vacuum degassed and certified Orvar Supreme is a high performance alloyed steel with a good gross cracking and heat checking resistance. It has good toughness and ductility in all directions. This material conforms to W. No. 1.2344 / AISI premium H13 / EN X40CrMoV5-1.

You can download the tech sheet for these two versions of H13 tool steel

So, that my two cents, hope this helps more than confuses.

Rome Hutchings The Prairie Forge

13633 Ferman Avenue NW Clearwater, MN 55320 (763) 878-1694 snipped-for-privacy@theprairieismygarden.com

I just looked up the specifications for H-13 and it says it's air hardening. To wit:

" Heat Treatment - Preheat to 1500 f and then heat to 1850 F. Hold at

1850 f for 15 to 40 minutes and then air cool (air quench)."

"Tempering - Temper at 1000 F to 1200 F for Rockwell C of 53 to 38. It is advisable to do a double temper by repeating the process and use 1 hour at temperature each time."

This was from the Principle Metals site

Worked my way around the Uddeholm site and couldn't find the download you mention. Found others, but not what you mention.

But since your statements is the first I've ever heard about H13 being an oil quench tool steel I did a google search and visited a half dozen or so sites. Every one, without exception, states that H13 is air hardening.

Bottom line is that I have to agree with Pete whole heartedly.

Dave Brown Heritage Smithing Green Bay, WI