CAM software for mold making - Part II

How about posting some examples of the work you intend on doing so we (tinw) can get a better idea of what your specific needs in a CAD/CAM system are? Here are examples of some 3 axis work I do on a near daily basis with Mastercam.

Is the work your doing less, the same, or more involved than that?

I would have to say based on the geometry commonly used to describe a fan blade, my needs are the same or LESS.

My work include molds for vulcanized rubber, open cast urethane, core boxes and permanent molds. Plugs or patterns include match plates, vacuum forming and wet lay-up.

My work has always been done in an all manual shop that includes not only lath and mill work, but a complete wood and plastics pattern shop. I do not own, but have complete access to a couple of large shops that are primarily Haas equipped, but practice only manual programming and no mold work. Both shops will sell me time at very attractive rates. I just need to select and get proficient with a useable 3 axis CAM package. Although I see no need to ever purchase my own machining centers, I will probable buy a large gantry sized router, for wood and foam work.

Any idea what a single user copy of Mastercam is worth?

Worth?, or how much you have to pay?

I hear ya, I guess I mean how much do you have to pay.

The basic package starts around $5000 and the full boat is around $15,000. Plus 10% yearly maintenance. Local distributors may reduce the price to make deals like anything else.

Tim, Best advice from me would come at 2 levels, less expensive would be Visualmill, Under 4k you can get software that does anything 3 axis without a major investment. Visualmill would probably include a seat of Rhino, actually the best and least expensive 3D Modeler available. You will need a modeling software if you are making molds and encountering deviations on the fly. Contact Joe Anand at Visualmill's Mecsoft.com website.

If you invest just a bit more, Smartcam will better suit you for the long haul and still remain probably under a Mastercam cost. You can call SmartcamCNC's support number to get a current price on several levels of

3 axis capable software that would all serve you well.. fwiw, you are not going to find fixed prices on any cam software these days, give them a call and they will discuss and narrow the field as well as give you some actual numbers to figure from. A huge thing to keep in mind is that with Smartcam you never buy post processors, they support you, have a terrific web support group as well as having a huge library of posts available for download. The support guys at Smartcam will custom build a post if needed. Smartcam also has a macro language that is included in all of their software at no additional cost. The post processors for Smartcam can easily be edited or changed to suit any user needs, nobody else gives you all that in one package. Smartcam doesn't load you down with add ons, it is all in t he one package. Smartcam offers Advanced Milling, Production Milling, Free Form Machining as well as several Lathe and Wire Software packages. If you call ask for Brad Hoitt or Paul Kavanaugh 1-541-344-4563.

If you look at my website everything on the website was made using Smartcam Freeform. I am about to receive a new Haas 4 axis Mold mill and it too will be programmed with Smartcam Freeform Machining.

I also use VX End to End, a full suite but the cost and learning curve may not fit your entry range.

If there is anything I can help you with my email address is real, or you can follow the links on my website to contact me.

hth, Michael

Not many manual pattern shops left. 5 years ago I tried to gain employment at one of the few pattern shops left in the area (I'm a journeyman pattern maker now earning a living as a mold machinist) and was surprised they still didn't view CNC mills as anything more than production machines. Theirs was tooled up for machining castings. Touring the shop was like stepping into a portal back through time, I hadn't seen that level of hand craftsmanship in well over the previous decade.

I very highly suggest considering Micheal Gailey's opinions, his experience parallels yours and he knows his way around quite a bit of software, much more than I.

Everything is negotiable. Consider this, I wouldn't make a deal on seat of any major (expensive) CAD/CAM product without getting at least some basic and advanced training included with the deal. The local Mastercam reseller has been advertising their training programs quite aggressively, I suspect because new seat and maintenance sales are down, and I'd wager they are not the only ones doing it. Bill posted the approximate pricing structure for Mastercam. It's a buyers market right now, you've got the upper hand.

With that said, if I were to go into business myself either contract programing and design or go full bore and open up a shop doing mold or pattern work, I'd run away from Mastercam as fast as possible and very highly consider Cimatron, or maybe Delcam.

Thanks for the input. Training as part of the initial sale is a very good idea.

Thank Michael, as I get closer to actually doing something I'll give you a call.

Thanks to Bill and Joe788 as well.

Me thinks this Cimatron stuff is a ok. go figure. I worked next to a guy using Delscam, It made very fast beautiful looking toolpaths, that needed allot of manual editing within delscam. It had a very nice toolpath editor- go figure, it needed it. Oh well happy editing! Maybe the guy did not know how to use it? I just point & click with Cimatron & I'm done- Look over the toolpath on the screen to make sure your getting what you want- happy?- post the G-code- send it to the machine! Push cycle start - go get coffee! Its simple when you have good software. Oh did I mention that Cimatron is a full 3D solid molder/ wireframe package that has full drafting capabilities & is excellent at complex assemblies like mold design especilly with Cimatron's Quicksplit - very slick. The price is probably equivalent to Mastercam or Delcam & nowadays very negotiable. You won't know untill you call & get the sales shpeal, & then you still won't know. Its like buying a car. They will get you for as much as possible. Thats the skinny. Have fun shopping for that under 2k do all cam software for mold making.

\|||/ (o o) ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________ ~ Gil ~ the HOLDZEM=A9=AE king

alt.machines.cnc offer: Send me your mailing address by e-mail & I'll send you some Holdzem's for the cost of USPS, around $3-4 in US.

Quickest to learn surfcam. Most popular mastercam. I'd pick between those 2. Both are desperate to sell new seats, make em an offer. Trust me they will take the offer. Or hit ebay for a used version of the 2 a few versions behind. Iv'e seen mastercam 9.1 for 300$. That crap can do anything. in fact I swear it's as good as the new stuff.

The cam market is on the edge, and its the cost of a cdrom to make another copy. Lots of barganing power there.

Email mastercam, offer 1500 for a full blown 3d seat, I'd bet a 5 pack they take it. (5 pack because I will prolly drink one)

If I had a full time programmer I'd invest in cimitron, delcam, etc... But not for this guy. His best bet might be surfcam, its cheap, easy, and relatively powerful.

Please explain, "allot of manual editing". Because, I call Bullshit.

I've been using PowerMill for over 10 years. I can guarantee you, I've NEVER needed to do "Allot of manual editing". It really isn't needed.

That could be. Or it could be, you're full of shit

I had a demo of Cimatron a few years back. The funny thing was, while it was importing the ProE Step file, I had imported the ProE step file in to PowerMill, had the roughers, and semi finishers done, and at the machine ready to start cutting. It could have just been that particular file. But, I've never had that problem with PowerMill, PowerShape, or VX.

At that point, we sent the demo jockey packin'. I probably could have done some "manual editing" in the mean time. But it really isn't needed, and I know what I'm doing.

It works very well, as long as you stay within Cimatron. In my experience, in importing their STEP files, they suck big, monstrous donkey shlongs. They come in with massively mismatched surfaces, and gaps you could drive a truck through. We used to contract an outside designer when things got too busy. Never again will I choose someone who designs in Cimatron.

Let me 'splain it this way Lucy, if you do "allot" of manual editing you simply have a poor post processor.

Michael

No problem Tim, first let me say that I do not sell any kind of software. Michael

I hadn't look on eBay, that's a good idea.

Have you worked much with Surfcam? Any idea how much it costs?

Tim, I've run SURFCAM for thirteen years. I like it for it's ease of use. It has some really good surface machining capabilities, and it's priced comparable to Mastercam. I think the three axis plus goes for more than $10,000.00, but I don't know for sure 'cause I haven't asked for a price recently. I've heard of others like Delcam being less money, but I won't comment on software I haven't used. I've used Mastercam, SURFCAM and Pro/E, and of those three SURFCAM gives the best bang for the buck when it comes to producing good tool path.

Later,

Charlie

Tim, I've run SURFCAM for thirteen years. I like it for it's ease of use. It has some really good surface machining capabilities, and it's priced comparable to Mastercam. I think the three axis plus goes for more than $10,000.00, but I don't know for sure 'cause I haven't asked for a price recently. I've heard of others like Delcam being less money, but I won't comment on software I haven't used. I've used Mastercam, SURFCAM and Pro/E, and of those three SURFCAM gives the best bang for the buck when it comes to producing good tool path.

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Thanks Charlie, that's the kind of input I was hoping to see.