can anybody compare UG to PRO-E?

yes, Blow/E is what you mean? Great solid moldeler for complex assemblies. Way harder to learn than say Solidworks. But then again more power for 3D sculped models. God help you if your beautiful Pro/E model won't split for cav/core seperation. Pro/man- agqin good god help you! I guess I did not make it clear in other posts? The good mold shops still around are UG houses up here.

Just my 2cents, But every mold shop I've been at that had Pro/E was not successful using Pro/man. Most went bye bye or use other software for toolpaths. Of course, PTC was allied with Cimatron for years.

Anyone out there using Pro/man? Probably should be posting to the Pro/e news group also?

yes, Blow/E is what you mean? Great solid moldeler for complex assemblies. Way harder to learn than say Solidworks. But then again more power for 3D sculped models. God help you if your beautiful Pro/E model won't split for cav/core seperation. Pro/man- agqin good god help you! I guess I did not make it clear in other posts? The good mold shops still around are UG houses up here.

Just my 2cents, But every mold shop I've been at that had Pro/E was not successful using Pro/man. Most went bye bye or use other software for toolpaths. Of course, PTC was allied with Cimatron for years.

Anyone out there using Pro/man? Probably should be posting to the Pro/e news group also?

Have you checked with the local headhunters for the shops with UG? Chasing software is a dead end. You just get good a one then jump to another. Then try and go back to the original... Unless your doing really simple work...

Well, problem is you have to go where the work is.

Ah got ya. All I can tell ya is my experiences in mold shop environments, which is what I think you want to stay in? Pro/e jobs do demand higher pay thats for sure. Not too many "good" Pro/E jockeys out there in the mold industry. The few that are, are very good, but usually not machinists. Basically designers/engineers, a different caliber, so to speak. These people are way up there, in the "clouds". Guru's. Not bad guys, but have no clue on "real world" mold manufacturing. For example mention MC or Smartcam & get the snub maybe a bad example? but I think you know what I mean. I too thought that Pro/E experience would be nice on the resume. It is. When a place has Pro, & you have some experience, Its a good bullet. You can at least help the designers when their backed up up. Which is most of the time Thats what got me in a few places. But once working "inside" theses shops................ OMG! Needless to say those jobs did not work out for me. Good places,pay, but FUBAR mold making. So if its part/mold design go for it! If its CNC'ing (Pro/Man) Run like hell. Dont look back. FYI, for example, the mold shops up here using Pro are always looking for experienced designers. when work load increases- very typical in the mold biz.up & down shit. IMO you'll have better luck with UG for mold shop CNC programming work.

=95*=B4=AF)=B8.=95*=B4=AF)=A4=AA"=98=A8=A8=AF=AF=A8=A8=98"=AA

post to comp.cad.pro-engineer for a "sample" would be interesting to read some replys from the Guru's

I think you'll find the "long term" guys who've been at the same employer for a number of years may get the "attitude". Problem is when work lasts less than a couple years (normal now), you have to decide: do you stay good on one system and hope to find constant employment with that system? Or, do you try and change programming tools every time per the employers requirement. The latter results in lower pay of course because of the lack of recent training. It's a vicious cycle. That's why I recommend learn the tool you prefer that hopefully a few shops have a demand for. It's not like when I was a machinist not bound by the software "du jour".

Ah got ya. All I can tell ya is my experiences in mold shop environments, which is what I think you want to stay in? Pro/e jobs do demand higher pay thats for sure. Not too many "good" Pro/E jockeys out there in the mold industry. The few that are, are very good, but usually not machinists. Basically designers/engineers, a different caliber, so to speak. These people are way up there, in the "clouds". Guru's. Not bad guys, but have no clue on "real world" mold manufacturing. For example mention MC or Smartcam & get the snub maybe a bad example? but I think you know what I mean. I too thought that Pro/E experience would be nice on the resume. It is. When a place has Pro, & you have some experience, Its a good bullet. You can at least help the designers when their backed up up. Which is most of the time Thats what got me in a few places. But once working "inside" theses shops................ OMG! Needless to say those jobs did not work out for me. Good places,pay, but FUBAR mold making. So if its part/mold design go for it! If its CNC'ing (Pro/Man) Run like hell. Dont look back. FYI, for example, the mold shops up here using Pro are always looking for experienced designers. when work load increases- very typical in the mold biz.up & down shit. IMO you'll have better luck with UG for mold shop CNC programming work.

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One guy designing? Hmmmm. He can keep up with work load? Maybe lots of repete or simialar type jobs? Or maybe thats were you come in, to help design/programm/out on the floor if necessary. That was my position for years. The "all around moldmaker" with strong shop skills. There aint to many of us that can jump on Pro, do some detailing ect kinda easy stuff, jump in Cimatron with the Pro data base, Sort out the assembly, Run toolpaths, Go out on the floor, setup CNC, push cycle start & go home (Readers Digest version) Sounds to me you have all the right skills to achieve just that.

They are doing the right thing. Use the tool that gets the job done the most efficiently. Utilizing talent available on those tools. In Gil's "perfect world" Mold shops should have a seat of every thing. Well at least the popular ones. Pro,UG,Cimatron,MC, Esprit,Solidworks,..... ect. They are just tools like you say. Its no different in any other trade. In todays 3D CAD world it is a feather in your hat. Customer can supply mold shop with native data base, no translation-loose of design intent ect. Shops can do whatever they need to modifiy that database, if necessary ie: draft/PL splits- submit it back to customer for approval(ya right)- Thus the "Paperless mold build". Been there done that. It works. Saves tons of hours detailing.(oh do I hate detailing)

Now that convinced me, those guys are on the "right" track with Cimatron.

Pro/man does have a place, but in very select, non job shop environments. Problem being, no talent to make it work.

Yup, & they are not "really" happy with it? So when new stuff comes out, they are looking!

Career building, I believe you've already chose that as being a Toolmaker/Moldmaker? Its like the mob. Once your in for a long time, its hard to get out. Its experience in that field - being well rounded- IE: Got MC? no problem. Got UG- no problem "I can use any of em". Now that's making due with whats available to get'R'done (Gotta love Larry the Cable Guy) & should command decent pay? Unlike some around here,that make a career out of complaing about how I can't getRdone with what I got.

Ah....... mills & grinders..........Gil's "hobby" garage shop:

Bridgeport with 3D EZ track/EZ Path Boyer Shultz 6-12 with hydraulics/water/dust collector. Logan/Sheldon/S.Bend lathe with Hyd. tracer attachment. Deckel #2 grinder- will settle for SO Miller syncrowave TIG Of course Cimatron.

dream on buttercup, time to go to work now.

One guy designing? Hmmmm.

******** No. One guy is using pro-e. Everyone else uses something I never heard of. ********

He can keep up with work load? Maybe lots of repete or simialar type jobs? Or maybe thats were you come in, to help design/programm/out on the floor if necessary. That was my position for years. The "all around moldmaker" with strong shop skills. There aint to many of us that can jump on Pro, do some detailing ect kinda easy stuff, jump in Cimatron with the Pro data base, Sort out the assembly, Run toolpaths, Go out on the floor, setup CNC, push cycle start & go home (Readers Digest version) Sounds to me you have all the right skills to achieve just that.

They are doing the right thing. Use the tool that gets the job done the most efficiently. Utilizing talent available on those tools. In Gil's "perfect world" Mold shops should have a seat of every thing. Well at least the popular ones. Pro,UG,Cimatron,MC, Esprit,Solidworks,..... ect. They are just tools like you say. Its no different in any other trade. In todays 3D CAD world it is a feather in your hat. Customer can supply mold shop with native data base, no translation-loose of design intent ect. Shops can do whatever they need to modifiy that database, if necessary ie: draft/PL splits- submit it back to customer for approval(ya right)- Thus the "Paperless mold build". Been there done that. It works. Saves tons of hours detailing.(oh do I hate detailing)

Now that convinced me, those guys are on the "right" track with Cimatron.

Pro/man does have a place, but in very select, non job shop environments. Problem being, no talent to make it work.

Yup, & they are not "really" happy with it? So when new stuff comes out, they are looking!

Career building, I believe you've already chose that as being a Toolmaker/Moldmaker? Its like the mob. Once your in for a long time, its hard to get out. Its experience in that field - being well rounded- IE: Got MC? no problem. Got UG- no problem "I can use any of em".

*********** I don't see much programming in my future. I see lots of cnc, from conversational mill/lathe, cnc edm, cnc wire, but no programming. This year I'm going to concentrate on building my tools back up and being a leadman. Get back to living normal from normal pay on a normal shift with normal insurance, and normal benefits. Maybe get a beer gut and a tan. ***********

Now that's making due with whats available to get'R'done (Gotta love Larry the Cable Guy) & should command decent pay?

********* Depending on where you live and when you can't always "command" decent pay. Our trade is evil and is the last bastige of organised slavery. ********

Unlike some around here,that make a career out of complaing about how I can't getRdone with what I got.

Ah....... mills & grinders..........Gil's "hobby" garage shop:

Bridgeport with 3D EZ track/EZ Path Boyer Shultz 6-12 with hydraulics/water/dust collector. Logan/Sheldon/S.Bend lathe with Hyd. tracer attachment. Deckel #2 grinder- will settle for SO Miller syncrowave TIG Of course Cimatron.

dream on buttercup, time to go to work now.

********** I downloaded cimitron. Well most of it. I'll try to learn enough about it to explain why UG knocks it's weener in the dirt. :)

UG...is a sweet lady, like one of those giant clipper ships. It's the bridgeport mill of cnc programming.

=AF)=B8..*=B4=AF)=A4=AA"~=A8=A8=AF=AF=A8=A8~"=AA

Interesting - What is it?

Your right about that. I've Been back on the "floor" these last 6yrs. Back to basics. Outside of moldmaking- in different areas on manufacturing, thru headhunters ect. ,some "mom&pop" mold shops even contract moldmaking. Learned ALLOT about different machines / techniques. Its been hell, but a eye opening experience.

Did the 2nd & 3rd shift thing. The 3-12shift aint that bad. Its still halfway normal. But 3rd... man that's a "different" crowd.

Had the 200+ belly back in the "Hey Day" 90's of cell phone molds. Now

160ish - feel allot better.

Evil is putting it lightly. Its vicious. Most shop owners are exactly Tyrants! according to webster. They have to be? to compete with Chinese $5/day labor rates. The veteran premadona guys in these places are scared for their high pay jobs. Help is just about out of the question. Its more, stand back & let ya f*ck up & say see! Stupid shit, man can I tell ya stories. Un f*ck'n believale. But hey nobody said life's fair.

Good luck with that. Without proper training your pulling your pud. I've been involved with a few UG mold houses & "see" what their designers/progrmmers do as compared to what I know Cimatron can do. Its close. Too close to call a desisive "weener" IMO. Its the same ol same ol. Shine in one thing- fall short in others. I'm sure you've said it & so have I. There is no 1 perfect CAD/CAM system. ALL CAD/CAM systems SUCK! Because they wont do what I WANT!:-( wah wah wah...........(WoodJa JB)

Ya, but Cimatron has ALL the ATACHMENTS. Is a Bridgeport a good horizontal mill with the right angle head & support arm- no but it works ok. IE Cimatron's trode function - is it good?- well its hooky but ok if you know how to use it. Just a another bad example of comparing apple's to banana's. FYI apples & bananas defiantly both good for you, but a banana is allot better nutritionally for ya than the "apple a day" BS story made up by apple growers.

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Interesting - What is it?

Your right about that. I've Been back on the "floor" these last 6yrs. Back to basics. Outside of moldmaking- in different areas on manufacturing, thru headhunters ect. ,some "mom&pop" mold shops even contract moldmaking. Learned ALLOT about different machines / techniques. Its been hell, but a eye opening experience.

Did the 2nd & 3rd shift thing. The 3-12shift aint that bad. Its still halfway normal. But 3rd... man that's a "different" crowd.

Had the 200+ belly back in the "Hey Day" 90's of cell phone molds. Now

160ish - feel allot better.

Evil is putting it lightly. Its vicious. Most shop owners are exactly Tyrants! according to webster. They have to be? to compete with Chinese $5/day labor rates. The veteran premadona guys in these places are scared for their high pay jobs. Help is just about out of the question. Its more, stand back & let ya f*ck up & say see! Stupid shit, man can I tell ya stories. Un f*ck'n believale. But hey nobody said life's fair.

Good luck with that. Without proper training your pulling your pud. I've been involved with a few UG mold houses & "see" what their designers/progrmmers do as compared to what I know Cimatron can do. Its close. Too close to call a desisive "weener" IMO. Its the same ol same ol. Shine in one thing- fall short in others. I'm sure you've said it & so have I. There is no 1 perfect CAD/CAM system. ALL CAD/CAM systems SUCK! Because they wont do what I WANT!:-( wah wah wah...........(WoodJa JB)

Ya, but Cimatron has ALL the ATACHMENTS. Is a Bridgeport a good horizontal mill with the right angle head & support arm- no but it works ok. IE Cimatron's trode function - is it good?- well its hooky but ok if you know how to use it. Just a another bad example of comparing apple's to banana's. FYI apples & bananas defiantly both good for you, but a banana is allot better nutritionally for ya than the "apple a day" BS story made up by apple growers.

On Nov 26, 11:05=A0pm, "vinny" wrote:

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=95*=B4=AF)=B8.=95*=B4=AF)=A4=AA"=98=A8=A8=AF=AF=A8=A8=98"=AA

Cimatron E (elete) is on ver9. I too am curious how E really is. I have not migrated to E. No shops around here, that I know of, using it. The few the proud still left, have stuck with IT (integrated technology) the previous platform started in the 90's, ended around 02/03 with ver 13. Support also dried up a few years later for IT. So whats left is it, kinda like CAMEX. Old war horses just wont die I'm still am on their e-mail list & have been in contact with their sales guy since NPE show. My place is looking for a CAM system, but still hesitant to pull the trigger at 15k, due to the simplistic work we do. They are now just getting in to 3D more & more. Previously outsourcing most 3D work to some place on the left coast. Seems like they do a good job. Everything comes back polished & nicely fit to the plastic part. I'll have to find out what software they use & also mother company in Germany. I don't want to ask too many questions or be too opininated just yet. I am the FNG ex-moldmaker with a little less than 1yr under my belt there. But hey its a good company, closest I've ever worked to home,they'er making money & looks like more projects in the wings for '10. Talking about new CNC lathe & mill, if project takes off we are proto-ing right now. Anyway here's the Cimatron e-mail from 9-14-09: =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D CimatronE Version 9 Has Shipped E 9 Highlights Cimatron E 9

Visit the Cimatron website to view E 9 highlights. | Greetings!

We are pleased to announce that CimatronE Version 9 has been shipped (and keycodes are being processed) to those current on 2009 maintenance.

If you have paid your 2009 maintenance, and do not receive your software by September 25th, please contact us.

If you have questions regarding your maintenance, please contact Hari Sridharan via email ( snipped-for-privacy@cimatrontech.com ) or phone (248-939-7445).

Sincerely,

Lisa Sterling Director of Marketing Cimatron Technologies, Inc. email: snipped-for-privacy@cimatrontech.com phone: (248) 596-9700 web:

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=95*=B4=AF)=B8.=95*=B4=AF)=A4=AA"=98=A8=A8=AF=AF=A8=A8=98"=AA

Cimatron E (elete) ver9

email announcment 9-14-09:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D

Greetings!

We are pleased to announce that CimatronE Version 9 has been shipped (and keycodes are being processed) to those current on 2009 maintenance.

If you have paid your 2009 maintenance, and do not receive your software by September 25th, please contact us.

If you have questions regarding your maintenance, please contact Hari Sridharan via email ( snipped-for-privacy@cimatrontech.com ) or phone (248-939-7445).

Sincerely,

Lisa Sterling Director of Marketing Cimatron Technologies, Inc. email: snipped-for-privacy@cimatrontech.com phone: (248) 596-9700 web:

=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D= =3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D=3D

I have not used E ver9. Still use the old war horse IT(integrated technology). Their previous platform started in the 90's, ended around 02/03 with the new total rewrite E. I don't even now any shops that have fully moved up to E. Does anyone here? HELLO! Its a tough battle if your use to it/ trust & comfortable with & it gets the job done. Maybe thats why you son't see anybody here comlpaining about it, besides WoodJa?

-- \|||/ (o o) ______.oOO-(_)-OOo.____________________ ~ Gil ~ the self proclaimed IT13=A9=AE king