old techniques still in use?

While reading one of the Lindsay reprint books about machining techniques of 1894, I was struck by the amount of coverage given
to bench or vise work techniques. Complete Practical Machinist by Rose ISBN 1-55918-246-6 http://www.lindsaybks.com/ (seems to be out of print at lindsay's) http://www.directtextbook.com/prices/1933998091 I know that hand-scraping is still used on some of the most precision machines, but what about "chipping" or chiseling? Is this still used in any shops, or has the cheap end-mill eliminated this entirely? How about "blind" oil groves in babbitt bearings?
Any of the cnc shops putting the finishing touches to a replacement part for a customer's obsolete machine with a cape chisel?
Filing seems to be stressed in some of the European apprentice machinest programs. Is "chipping" also covered?
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Apr 29, 8:59pm, F. George McDuffee <gmcduf...@mcduffee- associates.us> wrote:>

I had to use a chisel during my European apprenticeship. The idea of the chisel actually illustrates the basic cutting tool really well. Force vectors, cutting forces, edge strength, etc.
I've found that I'm ultimately happy to have some experience with a chisel. When you really need a chisel, most other techniques are fairly impractical. Mind you, this applies to fairly specific work (troubleshooting mostly), so I'm not sure a production shop machinist would be very interested.
We only had to chisel out segments of thin plate (too small to use a drill/hacksaw combo). As I understand it, the millwright Meister exam requires the production of a shaft keyway using only a chisel!
I've mentioned it before, but you can use scraping techniques with a well dressed die grinder stone instead of a chisel for flattening a block. Useful when the block has but one planar surface. I'd say this is an "old" technique.
Speaking of the "old" way, I can't say I've ever used my experience in riveting for any serious application. About the only thing that work taught me was to not use rivets! What a pain.
I suppose it's a good education in the importance of balance and attention to detail in press work. If you start a rivet incorrectly, you're making life *very* tough/impossible later on in the process. Interesting education in cold-forming.
Regards,
Robin
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Appreciate knock it off with continuing the crossposting to AMC anytime where it occurs the fuckwit mcduffee happens to be involved.

<snipped, plonked >
--


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On Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:59:36 -0500, F. George McDuffee

A lot of the skills went away when various processes vanished. Why learn to cut a keyway with a cape chisel in the middle of a 50 foot shaft when they took all the overhead shafts out of the plant and replaced them with individual motors.
Do they use babbeted bearings any more? Do people still pour them?
I did once get many brownie points by being able to re-scrape a 4 inch bronze bearing on an old surface grinder but most of the old skills just aren't needed any more.
Hard to find a wheelwright to tighten up your buggy wheels or a good buggy whip maker these days and for quite a while a farrier was damned near impossible to locate - although I hear that trade is making a modest comeback. Looks like gunsmithing is also a dying trade too.
Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 08:53:01 +0700, Bruce in Bangkok

Most whip makers are now chinese and they cater largely to the Western S&M trade, though there are still quite a number of US craftspeople still making them for both legit and S&M trade
Farriers are indeed making a comeback, as there are more horses in the US today, than at any time in its history.
Course most are riding stock, not working stock...not many plow horses or milk wagons...
Gunsmithing is indeed a dying art. They have two issues..governmental regulation that is worthless but a huge hinderance and have added huge costs, and gunsmiths have largely priced themselves out of the market for many people.
Thats the reason I first learned machining, because I wanted custom stuff, or to repair stuff, but couldnt afford the prices most smiths were charging even then. I do nearly all my own gunsmithing, and let/teach friends who come over to my home shop to do repairs/mods of their own.
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On Apr 29, 3:53 pm, Bruce in Bangkok

Wheels and carriages, in the US you can hire the Omish. They can restore things to like new. Karl
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On Wed, 30 Apr 2008 06:06:05 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

And that is nearly the only place that you can get it done, but damn, it is a long drive back from california to get the wheels fixed.
Bruce-in-Bangkok (correct Address is bpaige125atgmaildotcom)
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On Apr 30, 5:03 am, Bruce in Bangkok

Actually the Omish carriage repairers can come to you in the US Don't know about Bankok. They're some of the few or possibly only Omish allowed to drive motor vehicles. Karl
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snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Please. Thats Amish, at least in PA where there are lots of them. ...lew...
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<snip>

I start using the version I heard in the movie 'Witness' with Harrison Ford, during one part you see a tourist group in the background and hear the leader say something about the Amish and pronounce it Aimish. basically Amish with a long 'A' in the front. After all it was in a movie so it must be the right way :)
Bill
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Bill wrote:

It's spelled with an A but the sound is like Au as in Author. ...lew...
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Ok....I guess I'm not as funny as I think. I live in Pennsylvania a hop skip and a jump from where the movie was filmed and know how to pronounce it I just thought the movie way was funny. I'd never use it with someone not familiar with the correct pronounciation.
Bill
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On Thu, 01 May 2008 06:43:27 -0600, Lew Hartswick

Old Order Amish do not use modern technologies, more modern groups live much as we do, those in the middle can drive cars after they have painted the chromium flat black. Gerry :-)} London, Canada
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On Thu, 01 May 2008 19:56:08 -0400, Gerald Miller

Commonly known as Black Chrome Mennonites

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wrote:>>Old Order Amish do not use modern technologies, more modern groups

Q: Do you know why the Amish girl was thrown out of her community?
A: Too Mennonite.
-- Jeff R.
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<snip>

My favorite is,
"What does an Amish bride get on her wedding day thats long and hard....... A new last name"
Yea, I know I need help.......
Bill
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On Fri, 02 May 2008 01:56:06 -0700, Gunner

The "black bumper" Mennos in Ontario were the Waterloo-Markham group, mostly , and today they don't even paint any chrome that happens to be on the car.
A lot of the old-order Amish (Nafzinger?) don't use zippers on their clothing (hooks and eyes or buttons only) and use NO RUBBER - not even boots or soles or heels on shoes. Iron tires on the buggy. If it didn't exist in about 1540, it is not allowed.
Then there's us "modern mennos"
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Gerald Miller wrote:

Are you sure those aren't Meonnites? ...lew...
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On Fri, 02 May 2008 08:30:43 -0600, Lew Hartswick

As I stated earlier, the "Black Bumpers" are a conservative Mennonite group (here in Ontario, generally Waterloo/Markham Mennonites) The old "Western Ontario Mennonite Conference" used to sometimes be referred to as the "amish" conference of Mennonites because many shared common ancenstry and family names (had come from the Amish to the less conservative Mennonites)
The Schwartzentruber Amish are the most conservative (Ohio and Indiana) The Weavers are less conservative, and there are also the "new order".None own or drive cars to the best of my knowlege.
Here in Ontario the "Dave Martin" Mennonites, or the "Reborn" are the closest Mennonites to the Amish in many ways (the "shun" etc) but they use computers and electricity in their businesses - some very high-tech manufacturing in the Yatton/Wallenstein area and it is not uncommon to see them talking on the cell phone on the way to town in the buggy. Most do not use electricity in the home, and they don't own or drive cars -------.
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On Thu, 1 May 2008 04:47:16 -0700 (PDT), " snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com"

That's Amish
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