still work out there - MN

"The Kid" got laid off Thursday. Last day of work on Friday. He's got a ton o' payments - house, car, student loan, credit cards.
It took him till 10:00 A.M. today to get another good job. He's lead man - programmer, setup, order tooling etc. in a five man shop. Quite a change from the large corporation. Pay is close to the same at $25 but little OT, vs. 10 - 20 hours before.
Biggest issue, he needs a crash course in SurfCam. He's done mastercam for years and had one shop with Gibbs. The owner was just barely able to turn the 'puter on. Where should he go for help?
Karl
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wrote:

He should press the F1 key A LOT. If he's proficient in Mastercam, it will take him just a couple of weeks to learn Surfcam well enough to function. F1 accesses the online manual, and it is context- sensitive. If I were closer he would be welcome to stop over for some one-on-one pointers, but it's about a 26 hour haul from me to Minnesota.
Later,
Charlie
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Karl Townsend wrote:

Biggest issue for him, is urgent upskilling in fiscal management.
Mick
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Tell that to the government.
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He might want to start with <http://www.surfware.com/ and see if there's a reseller near him that offers courses.
The shop may also be in need of updates to their copy of the software.
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http://www.performancecadcam.com/cam2training.htm
It's well worth the $250.
Jon Banquer San Diego, CA
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They're running for the Democrat Party Nomination for President of the USA.
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ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Gunner
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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 10:57:47 -0500, "Karl Townsend"

If your grammer is correct then I would hope he has learned a lesson. Credit CARDS????? Sounds like he was trying to live far beyond his means. Just how many of those cards were at the credit limit?

It appears that he needs a crash course on managing his income.

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==============It all depends on your objectives/perspective and position in the food chain.
If you have large amounts of available capital, times could not be better. Huge profits are being made, and the proles are not yet rioting, for example throwing the brokers out the windows on the 37th story or off the roof, rather than waiting for them to jump.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 13:45:46 -0700, Gunner Asch

===========Gunner:
You ask some serious questions that are well worth asking. I am again appalled, but not surprised, that this is in a newsgroup rather than on national television as these are questions of basic national importance.
IMNSHO, there should be a blue ribbon panel, including the best demographers, actuaries, accountants, sociologists, anthropologists, military, etc. (and even a few politicians), working to answer exactly these questions.
==>It is correctly observed that drastic situations demand drastic remedies, and if you don't want drastic remedies, then it is imperative to avoid drastic situations.<Unfortunately, we, as a nation, appear to have ignored the many opportunities to "correct" minor problems, trends, tendencies, developments, etc. while these were cheaply/easily correctible, and we now must expend enormous amounts of time, effort and money, ==>*IF* these can be corrected at all. <There is however a fundamental philosophical problem/question "does *THE* future exist before it arrives?" Alternatively, many "futures" may exist, each with a greater or lesser probability of being *THE* future. The only person I know of that had an answer to this was Miss Clio, but her 800 number was disconnected some time ago...
Another problem is the increasing obfuscation, and suppression of historical/factual data, either through deliberate intent to deceive, as an effort to avoid giving the boss bad news, or simply because the requirements of conservatism and consistency in data were never stressed to the people tasked with its collection. Thus the difficulties and uncertainty in projecting and correlating trends/tendencies is enormously increased.
One example of this was the comments in recent threads about the reliability of the "official" CPI index inflation data. Other examples are the 420-point one-day jump in the stock market [biggest in 5 years] because of the sudden announcement of record profits by two big investment banks on Monday within hours of the injection of 200 billion dollars of capital into the financial services sector by the Fed on Sunday. This would smell at any time, but coming immediately after the collapse of Bear Stearns, it reeks. If the investment banks have this kind of money, then why are the CDO markets "frozen," and why are governmental [taxpayer] funds required to "thaw" the market?
To address your specific questions:

Probably not IN EXACTLY THE SAME WAY. That is where money disappears from circulation and there is a crisis deflation.
Ben S. Bernanke the current Fed Chairman and received a PhD in economics from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology in 1979. Dr. Bernanke is particularly interested in the economic and political causes of the Great Depression, on which he has written extensively. Thus whatever liquidity that is required will be provided. Unfortunately, it is entirely possible for crisis deflation and hyperinflation to exist at the same time. "Money" is defined as a medium of exchange and a measure and store of value. Thus, while there may be enormous amounts of dollars in circulation, possibly in bill denominations of ten million and hundred million dollars (with Alan Greenspan's picture on it?), there may be no "money" available. The Fed is powerless to act at this point, and operationally we segue into another "great depression." (A new unit of money may be required. Based on recent Fed actions, I nominate the "Bernanke" equal to 200 billion US dollars.)
Even if we managed to "dodge the bullet" THIS TIME, the US financial services sector is like a crack-head, always looking for a higher high, and like a crack-head, is doomed to eventually OD, either on larger than expected quantities of uncut "stuff," or "stuff" with especially toxic fillers/extenders. Either way the crack-head is dead or a vegetable.
What can the individual do?
To prevent the train wreck -- nothing. The political influence of the financial services sector and trans-nation corporations is too extensive/pervasive for any meaningful actions to be implemented. After the crack-head ODs it may be possible to enact some reforms, but it will be far too little and far too late.
I suggest the following: (0) Pay your credit card debt down. If you use credit cards, pay these off in full every month. Good used stuff [like a car or truck] that you own outright is better than new stuff you still owe on. (1)    Accumulate a reasonable amount of small US bills [1s and 5s] in case the credit card and ATM networks go down. The first thing to do when the ATM and credit card networks come back up is replenish your small bill stockpile. (2)    Accumulate reasonable amounts of alternate currencies such as the Euro and Yen, in case the dollar goes "tits up." (3)    Accumulate reasonable amounts of silver/gold coins or small (1 oz) ingots based on the value of their metal content in case everything turns to dodo. (4)    Try to keep at least 90 days of nonperishable food on hand at all time. 180 days is even better, if just for trading. You don't need to buy this all at one time, just buy a little more than you use each week. Be sure and rotate the stock by using the oldest stuff first. (Be sure and include toilet paper.)
As you are a survivalist, I won't cover other important items, except to note that if the "problems" extend past 90 days, start practicing the "Horst Wessel Lied." http://www.brainlink.com/~Anesi/horstw.wav
=================>Will it be a bummer of a speed bump and then business as usual?
It will never be business as usual again, with or without a "speed bump," as too much is changing (and has changed), from the demographic/ethnic composition of the country to the ownership and control of the major productive assets.
The majority of (and the most foundational/critical) of the nation's productive assets are now owned by trans-national corporations, and these trans-national corporations are now controlled by "citizens of the world."
"Engine Charlie" Wilson [SecDef] correctly observed in the Eisenhower administration "what's good for General Motors is good for the US, and what's good for the US is good for General Motors." John Kennedy correctly stated, "A rising tide lifts all boats." From the founding of the nation through the 1970s, the syllogism "When American Companies do well, America does well, and when America does well, Americans do well" was operational to a considerable extent.
What changed was that there are no more American companies, only trans-national corporations still domiciled in the US, more or less as an accident of history. In increasing numbers of cases, these corporations conduct more business outside the United States than they do internally (e.g. GMC car sales), and the bulk of any profits are shifted, via transfer pricing, to tax havens such as Aruba or the Caymans.
Note that the rapidly falling US dollar is a tremendous profit booster for the trans-national corporations as they can buy/produce goods cheaply here, or pay for supplies in US dollars, and sell in Euros, and Yen, again with the benefits of transfer pricing/tax evasion. US dollar inflation also reduces their bond and other obligations such as pensions, in terms of the Euro and Yen. Thus there is no incentive for the trans-nationals to help stem the decline of the dollar and every reason for them to exacerbate it.
==============>Will it be a watermark for the nation, at which point we go into

When our crack-head financial services sector "tokes" on their pipe that one last time and ODs, it will indeed be a new day and new direction.
=======>Which direction would that be?
Impossible to tell, but the preeminence and influence of the trans-national corporations (and recent trends) strongly suggests some form of neo or crypto fascism [e. g. "Rollerball"] http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0073631/ possibly combined with "unification" of the US, Mexico and Canada into a new North American Republic [with a new currency] and a "fairer" (or at least more "efficient") distribution/organization of territories, i.e. return of large portions of Texas, New Mexico, Arizona and California to effective Mexican control and/or the creation of totally new states/provinces.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 20:40:59 -0600, F. George McDuffee

Dont own a credit care, do all my business with cash, all my vehicles are paid for as well as the homestead.

SOP for survivalists.

Ok, will do. Not sure if the local grocery will accept a Euro though..<G>

Silver, ok, Gold is way too expensive anymore for me.

Without going into detail..thats well taken care of. Long term survivalist mainstay.

??? Why would the theme song of the Nazi party be of any interest?

oooookay......
Gunner
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On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:17:33 -0700, Gunner Asch
<snip>

<snip> #1 - I hope we never find out. #2 - I hope we never find out . . #99 - I hope we never find out.
#100 The US agricultural areas have undergone drastic socio-economic/cultural changes over the last generation, and these changes continue to accelerate. The small family farms are all but gone, and the larger/mega-corporate farms are heavily dependent of government programs/subsidizes. Internal migration from rural to the urban areas is at least as rapid in the red states as the blue states. "Political Correctness" is as rampant in the red state schools as the blue states. The red/agricultural states do not appear to have had any more success in limiting government [growth] than the red states, for example term limits and/or TaBor. In short, while your observations may well have been correct about our grandfathers, and even our fathers, that was then and this is now.
Red States -- legends in their own mind....
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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That's where the Amero comes in...

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F. George McDuffee wrote:

There is one of those.

One could also look back a little at our history George. We apparently have decided to follow the Nixon/Burns 1970/1971 plan, It screwed us then and it will screw us now.
--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com
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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:11:24 GMT, "John R. Carroll"

Can you provide some more information? Who is funding? Website/URL? Conclusions?

........................ If at first you don't succeed try, try again.... However this still does not answer the question "does *THE* future exist, or multiple possible futures with differing degrees of probability," and at what level, e.g. individual/short-term, micro, macro.
A major difference between Nixon/Burns and now appears to be the existence of the WTO/NAFTA and the huge proliferation of trans-national corporations outside anyone's control/oversight. Unfortunately, many of our financial powerhouses fall into this category, leading to thoughts about Frankenstein's monster.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 08:19:39 -0600, F. George McDuffee

I suggest you put your boots on the ground in the Red states before you make that claim. Might cause you to revise it abit.
Gunner

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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 07:05:27 -0700, Gunner
<snip>

<snip> =============I wish you were correct.
Unfortunately I grew up in the SE corner of Kansas (aka Little Bohemia), and I am now retired here. A considerable portion of my working life was spent [by choice] in smaller towns in red states in manufacturing management and tech support. My last 5 years before retiring was spent in the Texas panhandle.
To be sure the "table talk" at the "daylight donut shop" supports your position, but these are all old farts (like you and me), hence my reference to the "grandfathers and fathers".
The old adage "red state is as red state does," indicates that red states are no more capable of/willing to solve their considerable and increasing socio-economic/financial problems by limiting expenditures and/or increasing revenues than the blue states, nor are they any more likely (or willing) to undertake any decisive or direct action.
A major contributing factor is the gross and accelerating urbanization of the agricultural/red states. In Kansas the Kansas City -Topeka "strip" continues to grow like a cancer, even as the rural communities dwindle and die. http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res 0CEFD8163AF937A15755C0A966958260&sec=&spon=&pagewanted=all http://www.fieldus.org/publications/IE_Rural.pdf {living outside the money economy}
It increasingly is apparent that a state is red or blue only as an accident of history, and has no relationship to their organization/governance other than which branch of the mob runs things most of the time.
Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 22:18:45 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

Ayup..sure is.
On the other hand....its a way of life in the blue states.
Gunner
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F. George McDuffee wrote:

The WH. It's the Presidents Council on Economic Affairs or something like that.

There isn't really much doubt about a couple of things.
1) Inflation is taking off. 2) We are only putting off the inevitable for a short time.

Not really at issue. Interest rates, at some point in the future will have to go up. A lot. Someone is also going to have to put a floor under the dollar and then provide appropriate support for it. Repeating the mistakes of the past and expecting different results is the very definition of insanity. The difference now isn't globalization. It's the modification or elimination of Usury laws that happened between '79 and '84. The credit markets would be in much better, perhaps even excellent, condition right now had that easing been gradually removed when Greenspan began his rate cutting spree in 2001.
Credit card issuers and Banks will tell you that deregulating fee caps and raising interest rate caps to the point that they legalize usury has allowed tens of millions of Americans to enjoy the benefits of plastic money. They say this as though there is some intrinsic benefit to society. They also do not point out that their long term downside has been significantly altered by changes to the bankruptcy code over the last decade.
All of this combined can equally well be stated as follows:
"We, The Issuers of Credit of the United States of America, hereby Grant and Gaurantee that with the cooperation of the government, we'll chase you all the way to the Grave for your unpaid debt."
America now has a class of financially indentured servant that is powerless to change their condition in any meaningful way. Deliberately.
--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com
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