OT: cutting US corporate taxes

Well said! What don't people get about that?

There's nothing hidden about it, Stu. Corporations put a burden on a country's infrastructure, from police to military defense, from banking oversight to transportation arteries, just like any other economic institution. The shareholders don't pay that cost unless the corporation pays it directly. If the corporations don't pay it, it's pushed off onto the individual taxpayer, regardless of whether they're a customer of that company or not.

That's the basis on which corporations are taxed. The reason corporate taxes have been dropping in other OECD countries is that they're in global competition for exports and for jobs -- a true Race to the Bottom. Ten years ago, the US had the lowest corporate taxes in the OECD. When they cut corporate taxes, THAT's when it becomes a hidden tax on the consumer, because those burdens still have to be paid, but they've been pushed off to the consumer in the form of higher individual taxes. The net effect is a decline in individual net income.

-- Ed Huntress

What I got from that article was that many corporations became S Corps or LLCs and thus don't pay corporate income tax as such. The profits are assigned to be the shareholders and taxes paid on those profits. I know of a corporation with sales over $1B/year that changed to an S corp a few years ago. The stockholders had to show any profits on their individual returns. But, since all the stock was in the company's ESOP, all taxes are deferred until the individual draws from the account in retirement.

That's a far cry from no taxes being levied on the earnings at all.

It also did not explain how those really big companies escape taxes. Obviously they are doing so within the rules that our legislators created. So do they expect the companies to voluntarily donate funds to the government? Not a very illuminating article.

This is incorrect. In fact, 100% of *all* businesses *everywhere* pay no income tax, or any other sort of tax. Their *customers* pay the taxes, in the form of higher prices and/or lower quality; all the corporations do is collect the tax from the customers in bits and pieces in each individual sale, then forward it to the government in one big chunk every quarter.

Corporate income tax is simply one more cost of doing business, like rent, utilities, salaries, and capital equipment -- and that cost, like all the others, is passed on. This fictional tax on business is simply a convenient way for the government to hide how much it's taxing individuals.

I would expect any article with that opening to be somewhat biased, probably toward the left end of the spectrum. My expectations are met. Now, as to the *whole* truth? See other posters' comments, especially those about LLCs... /mark

On the contrary. It's a highly visible tax. Just look at the companies' annual reports.

If the taxes *weren't* levied on the corporations, then it would be a hidden tax. We'd still be paying it, but it would be lost in increased individual taxes. And sorting out the true cost of providing infrastructure for corporations, which already is extremely difficult, would be lost in the woodwork.

-- Ed Huntress

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By this logic, corporations don't really pay for electricity or natural gas either, and they should receive these utilities for free, and the individuals and small businesses can have these costs added to their electricity and gas bills....

While this sounds at least plausible on its face, this fails to differentiate between taxes that are actually fees for governmental services and improvements such as courts, police, fire, emergency medical, roads, etc., and revenue above the cost of the services directly consumed used by the government for its and the citizen needs such as schools, and parks.

Not to put to fine a point on this, but when all costs are considered over a period of time, many of our largest corporations are actually net money sinks, and the national economy would be much improved if these were liquidated. Automotive and air transport are poster children.

One possible approach would be to put any "for profit" corporation that fails to generate a profit in any 5 consecutive years when the national unemployment rate is below 7.5%, or a second bankruptcy within 10 years, into automatic chapter 7 proceedings. This would allow the more efficient and productive [i.e. tax paying] competitors to expand, and would reallocate their capital into more productive uses. We don't need the huge numbers of zombie/ and vampire corporations (with tin cups) now camping on the capitol steps demanding another handout.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]

------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

Not at all -- just look at the oceans of money spent on so-called "entitlement" programs.

They think they are so smart but why don't they understand it? As I said before, corporate profit has doubled over the last seven years while worker's wages have declined. Add to that the decline in the real estate of the average home owner and you have a situation where the average American has just suffered a bad decline in his income and his wealth. So you have exactly what was predicted by us when you went to a trickle down, or supply side advocating government. The wealthy and corporations had a nice big increase in wealth and the workers had a nice healthy decline in theirs. To put it simply supply side worked nothing like what it's advocates said it would. It hurt workers and helped the wealthy. At the same time the tax burden declined for the people who just made out fabulously well and was shifted to the average worker. I guess it's like being told that republicans were not like the crazy spending Democrats. That was true. They were much worse. It's the same with the taxes being shifted from the most able to afford it to those who can least afford it. The conservatives have their views and even when the facts tell them they are wrong they keep them anyway. No wonder the country is in such a mess with people like that running the show. They're worse than anti gun liberals when it comes to ignoring the facts.

Hawke

"liberal" friends?

It's the Republican party which is reducing corporate taxes...

The "liberals" give our tax money to more charitable agencies. Both are prolific spending _our_ money. That's inevitable with the current political and tax system, there is no accountability for they can always vote themselves more and more of _our_ money.

-- Regards, Curly

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Only to those who cant see the difference thru the trees.

Perfect example of my terms. liberal is liberal. Everyone I have met that claims they are "liberal" either needed psycho/medical attention or are already on A.D.D. drugs.

Mountains of empty talk of "fairness" and "equality", as if it will be EVER found in a world of greed. Politicians and their financial friends are the worst, constantly crying about the poor and neglected, while spending a MILLION dollars a day trying to get elected. Then some add in the "economic conservative" line as if that means anything..... all that means is that using both of those terms proves one totally blinded from making the CONNECTION that all these large government expenditures (liberal, fair, equal, helping) to make it "fair" do not work, have never worked and will never work.

Republicans, and Bush, have taken as their

And I agreed with an earlier poster that corporations never pay taxes... only the end user of the product. Plain, simple, undeniable.

If I was to tackle our "reduced liberties", putting higher taxes on corporations (a liberal fallacy that does nothing) certainly wouldnt be my first target.... Our liberties are trashed today because liberals have attempted to GIVE FREE stuff to lazy people and people that contribute NOTHING, all the while thinking they are "economically conservative". Its the blind leading the blind feeding the lazy, illegal, and undeserving with other peoples money.

I haven't. I blame the LIBERALS and there are plenty to go around.

Then inform us of the difference.

Then prove your example. You've neither defined the terms nor proven every "liberal" needs "psycho/medical attention or are already on A.D.D. drugs." Until you support your position don't expect others to nod in agreement.

Irrelevant, to the "liberal" charge.

You're using superlatives again, don't do that for there are always exemptions. Agreeing with the event and judging the event are two different things. One can say, "Gee, that kid shouldn't steal the old ladies purse" and be true. Such as statement is meaningless though since it doesn't condemn the criminal.

I said nothing about "taxes."

Who are your mysterious "LIBERALS"? When have you blamed Republicans?

-- Regards, Curly

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks

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See how confused you are ? I quite clearly indicated I was not taking any PARTY sides...... there is no difference in "parties".... just a bunch of elite fools.

Once more to see if you get it.... It's "Progressive Liberals" and their costly, painful, and continuously broken "fixes" for the world and people. They are all over the place and on all political sides. Sadly, these lunatics have a majority hold, and that is why you see the US struggling so hard to stay afloat.

We've not only been sold down the river by their scams, foolishness and fallacies, but we face mounting troubles in attempting to keep this boat afloat. Pretty soon the few paying taxes will no longer be able to, and then all of the save the world projects will whine like crazy.

Seems like its you that has a "party" hatred... not me. "Liberals" are the problem. They come from all walks of life and all sides of politics.

However you also agreed that both sides (parties) were spending our money recklessly yet you castigate only undefined "liberals." Which is it, those who waste our money or your as-yet undefined "liberals?"

You're moving the goalpost, a "progressive liberal" is not a "liberal" nor a "social liberal." Be accurate when hurling bile.

Why do you not revile the neocons and Republicans for their even greater transgressions during the Bush era? Failure to hold one side responsible while blasting the other indicates an unequal bias.

Is Bush a "Liberal"?

-- Regards, Curly

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks

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It is true that the corporations pass any taxes on to their customers, so a corporation in a highly taxed place as in the N.Y. area ends up with their goods costing more. But there is still a reason to have some corporate tax. With corporate taxes passed on to the customers, it is at least THEIR customers that are paying the tax. Not those that are not customers.

The real debate ought to be about the size of the corporate taxes. A large corporation with thousands of customers should be paying the same percentage of taxes as the small corporation in the same business with tens of customers. If the percentage paid by the large corp is a much higher percentage, then its customers are paying more in taxes per item than the customers of the small corp.

The idea that large corporations can afford to pay a high tax is a myth. It just appeals to those that want someone else to pay taxes. The tax the man behind the tree theory.

Dan

Stop attempting to categorize my position and clarify your own so we don't have this merry-go-around to drag your meanings out. Answer the inquiry.

It "touches" every reader. If you want to be understood and perhaps agreed with then make sure your postings are intelligible.

Yet he is the overwhelming favorite of the "conservatives."

-- Regards, Curly

------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I Love Republicans, They Taste Just Like Chickenhawks

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