Is it just me or does every new guy have more end mills, carbide inserts, boring bars then I do? Is that guy leaving tomorrow have three guys helping him out with his box? This has to be the number one 'look the other way' deed that one can only guess would add to costs over a year. Does anyone have any ideas on just how to get this phenomenon under control? Do people ask to look inside the workers box at any time? In our shop no one locks their boxes and there are no real thieves but tool management is definitely out of control.
"Proto" wrote in news:z6SdnYbxOrAdl9 snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
Sounds like time to implement a tool management system, whether that be a tool crib, a locked room that you have the key too, or a vending machine type set-up. Upon check-out of any tool, the machinist would need to assign that tool to the particular job he is running, along with his clock number or signature, etc. This helps a) you determine if you have a higher than expected tool useage job, b) allow you to determine tool costs per job more accurately, and c) know who checked out what tool for what. Be kinda hard for a guy to check out a tool not required for the job he's on, IF someone looks at the reports.
Of course..we are a large corporation, and have a fully staffed tool crib, but I can tell you to the $0.001 what we have in per piece tooling costs, by order, day, week, month, usage per time period for any tool, what tools we use the most of and even what particular machine is using the most of any particular tool. This last bit, helps tremendously in highlighting creaping-up machine problems before they become real problems. Usually the first thing that happens when a machine has a wear-type mechanical/electrical problem coming on, is that tool usage starts increasing.
"Proto" wrote in news:z6SdnYbxOrAdl9 snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
When I quit some places, actually most, looked through my box for company property. I don't believe in collecting stuff that I didn't pay for, so I never had a problem with them asking. Better yet is to supply employees with everything they need and get their boxes out of the shop. They are nothing but a source of trouble. Are employee owned tools any good? The only way to be sure is to have them calibrated. Why pay to calibrate tools that you don't own? Then there is the space that the boxes take up. Used to be the best tool maker could get by with a small Gerstner and a riser. Now everyone has a roller chest and a tower of boxes. It's a "my dick is bigger than yours" thing. If you want to reduce set up time and go to a 5S type of system, those boxes should be history anyway. Most guys are just using them to collect your tools to help support the fantasy that they will need them when they start their own shop. With other guys collecting shop owned tooling in their box is a control thing for them. It gives them a sense of control when other guys come to them looking for an end mill, drill, or whatever. Get rid of the boxes and buy some more tools. It's cheaper in the long run.
Many guys came with full drill indexes, and deserve to leave with them. As noted, tool management is the answer.
The real 'cost' is not when they leave, it is every day. You have 12
6-32 taps that you cannot acces, so a job waits till the morning, 20 bucks in next day shipping later.
I did this myself in a small model shop environment. Cleaned up and locked up. organized and categorized. guys hated me. for a month. Then they realized they could get whatever they wanted, just had to ask.
Everywhere I've ever worked, this is cause for instant dismissal.
We hired a young man in December. Tools started to disappear shortly after he started, so did the money from the coffee cup fund.
After hunting for a tool for a half hour, you'd say "Jeez there was an X right here yesterday and now I can't find it."
The next day it was right there. Just like it had been there all along.
He'd poke his head in the office and wish everyone a very cheerful good bye then go back into the shop and leave through the front door on the other side of the office.
One day last month my dear wife had had enough of it and she bustled outside and was standing there just as he came bursting out the front door - looking very furtively over his shoulder to see if anyone was watching him. He was holding a cardboard box in front of him, using his body to shield the box from anyone who might be watching him. Of course he ran straight into her.
"What's in the box Timothy?"
"Oh, nothing. Umm. Just some scrap."
"Did you ask if you could take some scrap home Timothy?"
"It's OK, I'll put it back." And he started to head back into the building.
"Open the box Timothy."
"No, it's OK, I'll get it tomorrow."
Loudly: "OPEN THE BOX TIMOTHY."
The box contained dozens of taps, drills and reamers. Most of them were used, though there were some new tools in there also, but the replacement cost of this stuff has got to be over $1,000.00.
He left saying that he'd be back the next day for his check.
I wasn't there when this happened but I was there when he came for his check the next day. I confronted him about the theft and of course he took an attitude of righteous indignation.
Made me want to strangle the little bastard.
We didn't call the cops and I don't know if that was the right thing to do. My wife did have enough presence of mind to call two people over as witnesses to the whole thing.
One thought I have that should work in most any sized shop is to have a legitimate way for the employees (and the public if the volume is big enough) to purchase surplus / used tools and tooling.
In a small company it might be just a box in the corner of the break room with used end mills and whatnot and a coffee can to collect $0.10 ea towards the company holiday party. Larger companies can have a full surplus store.
One thing that will drive even the most honest employee nuts is to see perfectly usable tools/equipment/tooling thrown in the dumpster. It is a waste, not environmentally friendly and simply repulsive to those who realize the usefull life left in the items.
I missed the staff meeting but the minutes show yourname wrote back on Thu, 24 Mar 2005 01:56:23 GMT in alt.machines.cnc :
Had a similar case: couldn't find the travel indicators. Kong comes back from medical leave (he smashed his finger). I'm assigned to be his fingers. We go to get something from his tool box. There with his tools were the travel indicators. Seems after he got taken to the hospital, someone had put all of the tools he'd been using away for him.
Yes, no, there is the problem of workers saying "this is scrap" and then buying it from the surplus bin. But ... it is a waste.
Those "perfectly good tools" are no longer cost effective for the company, but for the small shop ... Have a friend who works for Gerber sharpening knives. He "tosses" as worn out, sanding belts which he knows his friends in the home knife making field could get months of use from.
My gripe are the locked dumpsters which you can't salvage from. (I know why they are locked, but that doesn't mean I have to like it.)
Middle dropping but wanted to relay a story that I believe was in the "in search of excellence books. Don't know if it's true or not but it hammer home the point above.
Large tire manufacturer let employees either purchase or take home cosmetic "blems", figuring it was a benefit for employees and reduced their need to re-grind/scrap. Reject rate was quite high (figures given I believe were around 10% IIRC).
New CEO came in and reject rate was appalling. CEO went to shop with tire ripper knife and began ripping cosmetic blems instead of letting employees take them. Almost immediately the reject rate dropped significantly.
With regards to tools, most of the maintenance shops I deal with require the employees to supply all their own hand tools. If it gets broken on the job, it gets replaced by the company with an equivalent (and they have to turn in the broken tool). Doesn't work well with tooling items (they use a tool crib check-out system for those things) but most disappearing tools that were previously seen were the stuff like wrenches that could be used in a home shop. Guys also tend to keep better track of their tools as they are required to supply the broken item to get it replaced.
"Proto" wrote in news:z6SdnYbxOrAdl9 snipped-for-privacy@comcast.com:
Tool crib or some sort of monitoring is needed. Also, setup a tool account thru the company. We have a tool account of a minimum $100 purchase up to $500 with a $50 per week deduction from their payroll. If they leave before that for whatever reason the remainder is deducted before they're last check.
Consumables should be supplied through the company. It makes it easier for the company to control quality and in the event that some consumable is need that the shop doesnt stock or cannot find quickly then by all means reimburse the employee that might that oddball carbide tool etc.
Someone suggested gitting rid of the roll-arounds and such and that might work in a certain type of shop but that type of practise is not for every shop. It might be something to investigate but in my trade and our size shop it would not and would be a detriment to operations.
On the other side, most small shops require/expect their machinists to supply all their own measuring tools. No compensation is offered for normal wear and tear on these tools, not to mention anything lost, broken or stolen. Most machinists I've worked with have a minimum of $1K invested in tools and some have as much as $5K invested. If a guy breaks his allen wrench tightening down a vise, for example, I've yet to see a shop offer to pay for a new one.
=20 This roll-arounds, tool box thing must be a US thingy. I have never = seen, or even heard, of anything similar over here, and I've been in the = business for close to thirty years. A machinist or tool maker has his own caliper= and pocket calculator, and that's it. An auto mechanic isn't supposed to = bring anything but his lunch box. The shop supply everything else. Most = carpenters will have their own personal hand tools, like chisels and spirit levels, = but nobody expect you to pay for them yourself.
ff wrote in news:RCG0e.15170$ snipped-for-privacy@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com:
Non-Company Issued/owned measuring equipment on our shop floor is grounds for immediate termination. As is dropping or otherwise damaging, or even potentially damaging, a piece of measuring equipment and not immediately turning this into the Met Lab for re-certification. Having all measuring equipment going through certification at regular intervals is a requirement for our company to maintain our customers.
We have so many boxes of used drills and taps and saws and EMs that it is easier to get a new one than to stop and look for one that might be in some box under a bench somewhere. Not worth resharpening drills and small EMs or saws for the most part. No time to stop and organize what there is never room for. Sounds like a disaster when I read this back :)
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