eer brief

An energy concept (BRIEF)

Yes, there is a 21st Law of Thermodynamics. That is no knock on Faraday, just a reference to the 21st century, and the new technology it has brought.

Simply stated, it is, "No energy concept involving renewables shall ever be considered unless the word 'diffuse' is used, understood, and taken into consideration."

Faraday could not have seen this coming. In his day, there was not the multitude of diffuse renewable energy sources available, which can be converted to electricity.

If human beings are ever to use renewable, natural energy sources, they will have to take into consideration the diffuse nature of sunlight, wind, wave, etc. I was actually surprised to find that Faraday, himself, used the word "diffuse" in his writings. But, this was in reference to the spread of charge on capacitor plates, and not the UN-concentrated free energy that is available today for conversion to electricity.

There is NO way around this Law. By that, I mean that there in no way around solving the "diffuse problem," before we are able to put renewable energy sources to work in any effective way.

A idea......a is easy........ there is no crises.

We don't need no stinkin' oil. We don't need no stinkin' batteries. We don't need no stinkin' internal combustion engine. We don't need no stinkin' fusion. We don't need no stinkin' hybrids. We don't need no stinkin' hydrogen-powered cars. We don't need no stinkin' ethanol. We don't need no stinkin' natural gas. We don't need no stinkin' methane. We don't even need no stinkin' efficiency. We don't even need no stinkin' conservation.

Did I miss anything?

Yes - I missed a LOT!

But, whatever I missed, we do not need it.

WE JUST DO NOT NEED THEM Or more correctly, we would not need them if EER were brought about.

Or, even more correctly, some could be used, some not. We would have the luxury of choice, while at the same time powering our EV's with them. All of them. Any of them. As long as they are able to generate any amount of electricity.

Sorry to be so crude, but it is all true, and this effort of mine is becoming laborious.

To those who have read this before, and may have rejected it out of hand, let me say that it is my strong belief that two major companies may be engaged in pretty much the basic idea presented here. They have patents - I do not. In no way do I - nor will I - attempt to claim any right whatsoever to this idea - even though all my writing on it came from my own independent thinking for over

12 years. I wish them well. But, in case I am wrong about that effort being made, I surely wish some interested party would help me connect this to the people in government who say they want an energy solution. What they are looking for is contained on this letter. I am THAT confident.

Note: I can see EER powering an automobile. That is almost a lock, in my mind. Further applications are, perhaps, a little harder to deal with. Once a car IS powered by EER, then all the entrepreneurs will take the rest to the logical conclusion.

EER in Brief

Electronic Electricity Repository (EER) is merely a concept at this time. There is no business, no patent, and no money involved with this.

This involves solid state capacitors as a usable energy storage device for electric vehicles, and other items. Conventional wisdom limits capacitors to power surges, and the like. The full text of this concept will suggest a way to make them fully competitive with the internal combustion engine, while not violating the laws of energy density.

The easiest way to explain it is to use an electric vehicle as an example. To power an EV with EER, an array of electronic devices -- perhaps solid-state capacitors, perhaps another device -- would contain the electrical charge accumulated from a variety of sources of electricity. Renewable energy sources are suggested, but *any* source of electricity would work. With the questionable future of battery-powered EV's, and fusion as an energy source, and the political debate about fossil fuels, there are strong reasons to take a look at EER.

In fairness, many say it cannot be done. But, perhaps another war

-- or avoiding one -- could put the right minds to work on this concept. It

*would* provide a way to be independent of foreign oil, while providing a structure for the transition to renewable forms of energy to power EV's - or any other device powered by electricity.

This is merely a shell of an idea, but perhaps some further thought could help bring it about.

Frank Lincoln....72430,

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Let's suppose that the EER concept is fully developed, and built into an electric vehicle. Let's also suppose that the newest and best technological devices -- some of which are now being used in EV's - are integrated into the vehicle's design. What follows is a description of what might possibly have happened during an everyday trip to the store in such a vehicle. (This assumes the use of an *advanced* solid-state capacitor). Ms. Jones notices her "fuel gauge" as she starts her vehicle; it tells her that her microchip capacitor battery is 85% full. This means that of the vast number of microchip capacitors in her "battery", 85% are charged with their very small electric capacitance. She proceeds to the store, and returns home -- a quarter mile trip. As she pulls in her driveway, she looks again at her gauge. It reads 84%. She thinks that she used only 1% of her battery capacity for her trip. But, she is wrong. She used 10% of her available charged capacitors for the quarter mile trip. So, why didn't her gauge read 75% when she returned? There were several devices built into her vehicle which were replenishing used capacitors, almost as fast as she was using them. (All figures below are guesses -- just to make the point.)

  1. The advanced solar panel on the roof of her vehicle was, as always during sunlight, continuously recharging at a slow, but steady rate. Because she had happened to drive and park in the sunlight, the solar panel recharged 5% of her capacitors.
  2. The air scoops arranged in her vehicle's design -- although accounting for some drag -- were directing the air through small dynamos, which recharged another 2%.
  3. The regenerative brakes on all four wheels replenished another
2% of the capacitors.

So, she did, in fact, use 10% of the available capacitor charges, but 9% were replaced by the activity of her trip. This is nothing like perpetual motion; it is merely taking advantage of the natural surrounding energy to replenish the energy spent on the trip. It is even conceivable that her "fuel gauge" might have read a higher percentage upon her return; a shorter trip on a windier and sunnier day, in a more sunlit route and parking spot, and many more occasions to use the brakes, might have made that possible. The Second Law of Thermodynamics is not violated, because energy from outside the vehicle was being absorbed along the way. It is noted that a battery-powered EV could have done much the same, but the weight difference would have changed the percentages, so as to defeat the purpose. Frank Lincoln CS# 72430,2407

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It is understood that high energy density is something that has been sought for many years -- the concept is nothing new. What is suggested here is the possibility that modern technology may now be in the position to actually attain it -- to a degree that could combine the many energy sources (new and old) into a common pool.


- Trench capacitors, at the present time, have nowhere near the capability to deal with the degree of energy that would be required in Electronic Electricity Repository.

- The area of the plates in a trench capacitor will, for the most part, determine the capacitance -- not exclusively, but this is the factor that is dealt with here as having the most potential for improvement. It is assumed that progress in the other factors -- dielectric strength, dielectric composition, etc., will continue, and will accommodate the supposition of surface area increase made here.


- The surface area of a trench capacitor plate can be greatly increased without increasing the perimeter, or the space required to store the capacitor.

- Etching a groove on the plate surface will do this, to a small degree, and it is done, to some extent, today. What is surmised, here, is that, as the technology allows, many cross-grooves could be etched *within* the first groove. Then, with increasing precision, these cross-grooves could, in turn, be cross-grooved. And, then those cross-grooves cross-grooved. Each successive cross-grooving would be progressively smaller - magnitudes smaller. This could be repeated until the molecular level was reached -- each time increasing the surface area of the plate, and thus the capacitance. An inexact estimate of the number of times it could be repeated is 26. It is surmised that each groove, cross-groove, and, etc., would be matched by a ridge, a cross-ridge, and, etc., on the opposite plate, with corresponding shapes for the dielectric. The resulting configuration would yield a perfectly matching set of plates (sandwiching an appropriately shaped, and expectedly advanced dielectric). Such a configuration and material composition may not be possible at this time, but the direction of efforts in their respective technologies may lead to their development in the very near future. This concept is put forth in

*anticipation* of those developments.

- In theory, each successive etching would substantially increase the area of the plates, and thus the capacitance *without increasing their size*, their perimeter, or the volume of space needed for them. Again, the only barrier seems to be at reaching the molecular level, after each groove is re-grooved, perpendicularly, and then THAT groove is re-grooved, etc. This would take advantage of all the "inner space" available between the plate surface, and the molecular level. (Understand that in place of "etching", Scanning Tunneling Microscope Technology might be applied -- or even nanotechnology, if that ever becomes reality. The point is to configure the grooves -- by whatever method.)


- An almost endless storage system for electricity.

- A way to store electricity from *any* source, from renewables to a wall socket.

- A possible solution to the search for a better power plant for electric vehicles.

- A structure within which to make the conversion from fossil fuels to renewables.

- A way to accumulate the "trickle" of the many forms of renewable energy, and combine and store them in a practical way; a way that could give strength to the many "weak" and diffuse renewable energy sources.

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226 lines is *not* brief you retarded twit! Here's brief:
Reply to
Keith R. Williams

Forget it dude - you're wasting your "energy". Maybe you should be working on powering mankind's gizmos with neutrinos from the sun or cold fusion or better yet, a perpetual motion dynamo. As for me, I'm working on converting ordinary dirt to mega-high energy forms. I know I'm on the right track. If only a couple million ppl could sent me a dollar or two - uhh, for R&D - I know could make something wonderful happen.


Reply to

That's not easy, you moron.Many 'geniouses' the centuries before have tried to create the Perpetuum Mobile, but failed.You literally can't get energy out of nothing, it's forbidden by the laws of physics.

-- Dimitris Tzortzakakis,Greece Visit our website-now with aircondition!

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Reply to
Tzortzakakis Dimitrios

I agree with all that.

I just want to borrow a little from the solar system - which has lots.


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Sure, and to equal the generation of TVA alone, you only need cover the entire state of Tennessee with solar panels. That is practical, don't you think?

Charles Perry P.E.

Reply to
Charles Perry

You are forgetting the other 14, or so, items, like wind, wave, tidal, etc.

Eer is NOT just solar.

It would use anything and everything that produced any amount of electricity.


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The briefer, the better.


Reply to
Repeating Rifle

Actually, that turns out not to be the case. Tucson Electric has a 2.4 megawatt plant on 28 acres. That's 55 MW per square mile. Assuming you get 1000 full-sun-equivalent hours per year, that's 55 million kwhr per square mile. I looked up your July post where you give the annual generation of TVA as on the order of 150 billion kwh. That works out to

2727 square miles, still a lot of area to pave over but only about 5% of the total dry area of the state. And this is assuming non-concentrating type cells as used at the Springerville installation. This is equivalent to a peak power output of about 2 watts per square foot of land area.

I looked up the July post that gives 37,365 square miles of PV cells to equal TVA annual production. This works out to 144 watt-hours per square foot per year; but the assumptions in the post are 12 watts/sq ft and 12 hours /day giving 144 watt-hours per square foot per DAY. Under this assumption only 102 square miles of PV cells are needed. The total land area will be considerable greater due to structures and access roads.

I think the thought that electric power production in Tennessee was of the same order of magnitude as the insolation gave me the mental picture of a state without any winters and horribly hot in the summer - so I knew there had to be something odd in the calculation. The Tucson Electric web site gives lots of data on their installation.


Reply to
Bill Shymanski

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