Power outlet in home bathroom

Hi everyone,
I think my question would be simple to answer for myself if I had access to Queensalnd wiring regulations.
Of course I don;t have & a dwnld of the same would cost $65 a bit steep for materiasl which you would expect to be public domain?
Our homw is about 18 years old. Batroom has no power outlet, IE three pin wall socket. I could install fairly easily utilising the light switch but do not know if this is illegal. Our home is protected o all circuits with an RCD & all circuits are protected by circuit breakers. Seems to me it would be quite safe as weel as very practical to daisy chain ane power outlet off the existing light switch.
Any comment/advice sought & appreciated.
Pete
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If you were a licensed electrician as is required in Aus to do this kind of work you would have learned the rules and most likely have a copy of AS/NZS 3000 close at hand.
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John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?
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Peter, are you an electrical contractor?, if not you need to speak to one, this may interest you http://www.eso.qld.gov.au/legislation/facts/electricalwork.pdf an unlicensed person was recently prosecuted in the Rockhampton (Qld Aust) courts and fined $6000.00 for preforming electrical work.

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In Australia no one except a licensed electrician may make any alterations to the installation. To advise any unlicensed person to do anything other than to get someone qualified to perform the work is doing a very foolhardy thing IMHO.
In this particular case the initial poster exhibited gross ignorance of the subject. They wanted to supply GPO from a light switch. At a light switch point one can usually only access the live and switched-live wires, the neutral being looped in/out at the ceiling rose. The ground wire is often not accessable at the switch as it is also looped in-out at the rose,,,if it was used at all. Most lighting installations only employ 2 wire live-neutral cabling. So it would probably be impossible to supply the required GPO from the light switch anyway. Also Australia has very strict rules, AS3000, as regards GPO's in wet zones. To give advice on this point without in depth knowledge is reckless to say the least.
Daniel Indyk
Chartered Electrical Engineer (Power) Licensed Electrical Contractor
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Recently here in the US I found a Bathroom Circuit direct fed from the upgraded Fuse-Panel Board., as Described here:
The darndest thing it went into the switch box first with 2 Live wires & 1 Neutral, there it connected to a switch/receptacle at the usual place, then, ran up into the wall fixture.... I use to worry about this type of installation too, until GFI Breakers became more available. Now all you have to do is make sure the Neutral is Sole for the BR Circuit and wire in a GFI Breaker...
No more hassle, no more danger, no fuss from the customer, everything remains as is in the br & the hazard is abated.
ฎoy
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Of Course here in the USA., Violations can only be removed by a Licensed Electrician., I'm only Qualified and with Good Standing Journeyman Credentials but, I'd be damned if I was going to let my Cousin move in to her new apartment she bought with that Eminent Danger Present. ฎoy
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| Of Course here in the USA., Violations can only be removed by a Licensed | Electrician., I'm only Qualified and with Good Standing Journeyman | Credentials but, I'd be damned if I was going to let my Cousin move in | to her new apartment she bought with that Eminent Danger Present.
That's not true everywhere in the USA. In quite many jurisdictions, a homeowner can do the work on his own house. If a violation already exists, I'm sure he is allowed to fix it. There are even a few areas where no requirement for licensing even exists. The NEC has no force of law unless the AHJ adopts it into law (a few use their own instead). A few locations have not adopted any electrical code (mostly rural).
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that is rather crude....
I don't know about Austrailia but in here the US you are allowed to do your own Work in your Own Home., I doubt you'll face any charges for Tapping off an Excisting Lighting Circuit and running off a nearby Convenience Outlet in your own home.
If you've done wiring before: First make sure you have enough Residual Current (Juice) on the circuit with all the Lights etc. from the Target Circuit On of course. (measure the amperage across it with a clamp on meter at the Panel ) pull the wire away from the Box and test it., If you have; let's say 7 or so Amps on The Target Circuit from a 15 Amp circuit breaker [everything on], you can proceed, * Knowing the Amperage of what you intend to use on the New Receptacle helps you determine this better. Next
Open your Lamp circuit, Make holes: Find your path inside through the walls with a snake of fishtape, make your holes pass the cable ~ 2/12 BX (armored) or 3/12 UF (Romex) {with proper connectors at both ends of your wiring job}, install wire into a 2x4 Box install the box, splice your wires connect the device, connect your tap, neutrals & ground first then Hot, test your Receptacle device, replace Lamp install Plate outlet cover & close the job and plaster or patch any holes in your walls & ceiling corners.
I've done it for Friends & Family everywhere, no complaints, no problems, no warrants };-)
Of Course; if you feel this is too much or you that you can't do it safely, then for the sake of Pete, Call a Competent Electrician.
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Since it is in the Bathroom:
You Must Use a GFCI Type Receptacle to be safe & up to Code.
everything else is as mentioned.
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Foreign Electrical Systems are different & unique to me..
Does the RCD stand for Radio Controlled Doll ? };-) if not; I gather it might be some kind of Ground Fault Interrupter ??? I'd just wire down a receptacle if the circuit is protected from overcurrent and ground faults already at the panel.
Sorry; I haven't studied or heard much about foreign systems that much. yet:)
RQT
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Yeh well you should stop giving advice about things you have no idea about.
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John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?
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John G wrote:

You are correct, and bring up a good point.
It is a bad idea for anyone to give advice that may relate to local codes and laws if they are not familiar with the jurisdiction. When I saw the .au address, I watched to see how long it would be before someone from elsewhere would jump in with comments.
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Paul Hovnanian mailto: snipped-for-privacy@Hovnanian.com
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It's not much different, wiring basics and troubleshooting is the same., it's usually the same stuff under another name or code., unless Electricity runs over the wall or outside of the wires overseas It alarmed no one.
Paul, es mas; had I not mentioned I have never studied systems in Australia myself, Mr. doesn't have a clue but what he read, wouldn't have said a thing about the matter.
* There is alway some Idiot here that gets key happy when he thinks someone else posted something Real Stupid that makes him feel superior, until he finds out what a smarter man he'd have seem to be if he'd just responded to the OP and not the other Idiots he thought he had a better grip over. ฎoy
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It's not much different, wiring basics and troubleshooting is the same., it's usually the same stuff under another name or code., unless Electricity runs over the wall or outside of the wires overseas It alarmed no one.
Paul, es mas; had I not mentioned I have never studied systems in Australia myself, Mr. doesn't have a clue but what he read, wouldn't have said a thing about the matter.
* There is alway some Idiot here that gets key happy when he thinks someone else posted something Real Stupid that makes him feel superior, until he finds out what a smarter man he'd have seem to be if he'd just responded to the OP and not the other Idiots he thought he had a better grip over.
ฎoy
If you could read you will notice I was first to answer and explicitly answered his question as to why the rules cost a lot of money. You must be licensed in this country and should not be advised by someone who actually admits, and often demonstrates, he does not know much about electricity and certainly knows nothing about the world beyond the flat earth(USA).
--
John G

Wot's Your Real Problem?
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Hi, Do you guy's in yank land have 240Vac single phase?, and 415Vac three phase?, are your main switchboards M.E.N?(multiple earth neutral) do you have RCD (residual current devices) as mandatory earth leakage protection?..... one could go on here for hours. I think the two systems may be very different but I am not biased fore or against either, but to say that the two were basically the same would be like comparing black to white. IMHO. Lance

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Lance Ryan wrote:

Yes.
No. (Not in a residence and that's not a standard commercial 3 phase voltage).

Utility distribution systems have multiple earths (grounds), but premises services, or separately derived systems are grounded (connected to the grounding electrode system) at a single point only.

Yes, but we call them GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupter). They are not required on premises services, but on selected outlets (bathroom, kitchen, outdoor, etc.).

One can safely compare notes on design philosophies or engineering basics between different systems. However, the original poster asked a question about the legality of wiring something a certain way. That's not something that anyone not possessing the requisite knowledge _and_certification_* should attempt to answer.
*It really doesn't matter if one understands AUS codes. As another poster pointed out, it may very well be illegal for a non licensed person to attempt the job, not to mention provide engineering design advice.
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Paul Hovnanian mailto: snipped-for-privacy@Hovnanian.com
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Paul I agree with you I wouldn't give a novice advice on how to do anything electrical unless I was there with him or her next to me while i performed the job.
Laws & Codes are not meant to be broken nor Ignored I certainly do not break or ignore the codes, THe Electrical Codes have a Flexible Nature and are Mutable as Progress has taught us. Yet, In the US it is Illegal, for good ressons, to drive a motor vehicle without a License such a driver may face a fine, confiscation of the vehilce & possible jail time.
The same unlicensed person drives the same vehicle in an enclosed private property with the smiles & Blessings of The Land Owner., and he is Untouchable and i no violation of US Law.
Clearly Public Property being the Common Thread that Binds and Breaks Society from Restraints of The Law.
I can't Imagine a world without Licenses & Professionals, but I dread a world without Freedom and the Liberty to persue Happy Safe Circuits and Engineering with others.
Don't Blame Me., The Mตsic was Good.
Roy Q.T. ~ E.E.Technician In Due Course Computer & Electronics Certified Oddly I have a current DMV License too.
I guess I'm just too gruesome }:-)
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Paul, point taken; and very appropriate, forgive me for my prattle. This is where misconceptions come to the fore, I thought that your single phase supply (active-neutral) was at 120V(rms) potential, and your "multi-phase" (active-active) was at 240V potential. Lance.

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Commonly, single phase 240V center (center) tapped "single phase" is used for household supply. This gives 120 V hot (active) to neutral and 240V hot to hot for larger loads. The center tap is the neutral and is grounded. This is the old Edison system useful for DC as well as AC so the scheme was established in the 1880's and , as it worked well enough, became standard and economic factors (e.g. lots of 120V equipment ) kept this standard. In regions where it is *not* used it is called 2 phase (180 degrees between phases) which is technically correct although 2 phase generally, at least in North America, is considered as involving a 90 degree (Balanced) shift. In most areas, this is used in preference to 3 phase for domestic loads- economics being the deciding factor. Commercial loads will be 3 phase 208/120 or higher (say 416/240 ) Whether the UK approach or the North American approach is better is one of those undecidable arguments like the 50 vs 60 Hz situation. History, rightly or wrongly, put North America on a different track that the Commonwealth (except, mainly, Canada).
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Don Kelly
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Pete can do what ever he wants in His Home even if he lived in Cuba where their codes violations could cost you Death by Firing Squad. It's In His Own Home .
Rather than Rant on how Bad it is to do your Own work in your own home in the World of Electricity., why don't we focus on Heping him do it Right.
I am getting Narsty thoughts about this JG guy.... some one please say something before i say how nasty.
I think this guy's had too many shocks and doesn't want to see anyone hurt, so all he can do is say hire some else with a License to do what You Can do, your Wise, Experienced, Lucky Home Owner, Done Electrical wiring for years Self in your Own Home, for get all that Code Enforcement Officer.,Make the Owner Pay Him all the money He can and don't ask Us Here.
we don't do that in this group };-)
He didn't even clear up what RCD stands for is it Real Crazy Dude ? well I guess we'll never know, because all they do is Bash other people who ask, then he thinks he's Alright because he believes I don't know zip about electricity.,
probably finds it too hard to believe I have Vested Authority, 2 hands, a trained mind, the tools and skills to get the job done., in fact all I am lacking is the Airfare to go do it myself.
I don't think the Embassy or the Aussies will mind my visiting as He so Shockingly does :-)
Being Irate with Matter & rudeness unto others will probably keep drawing Current his way.
Throw a dog a bone };-)

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