Use of stepped sine wave UPS with SONY Bracia Flat Panel LCD TV

The difference between Sony and affordable brands like Truetech and Apex is that Sony adds useless features that you don't need like you have to turn the tv off before pulling the plug. And other useless features that actally make the picture and sound worse. But the build quality is the same and the picture quality is actually better on brands like Apex and Protron.

It is a good idea to protect cable and phone lines in and out of your entertainment center, however suppression designs can impact the ability to decode caller ID on your phone line.

This has been the case for decades with high powered projection devices. Remember the old slide projectors that would run the fan for a few minutes after shutting it off?

In alt.engineering.electrical Richard Crowley wrote: | wrote ... |> Scott Dorsey wrote: |> | **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote: |> |>Hi; |> |>I have just bought a new Sony Bravia 46S2010 LCD TV. The operations |> |>manual warns against pulling the AC plug without first turning off |> the |> |>TV. - No problem, I would like to run the TV and my Pioneer 300 disc |> |>PD-F1007 Jukebox CD changer* from a UPS |> | |> | Why? Is it absolutely critical that you be able to watch TV during |> a |> | power outage? Is your life so tightly tied up with the Simpsons |> that |> | you cannot spare a few minutes without television? |>

|> If the power goes out, that's the same effect as pulling the plug. |> He might have the TV on when the power goes out. I don't know what |> is screwed up in that TV design that requires this, but something |> certainly is. But I believe he's trying to find a workaround by |> having a UPS that gives up a time window to turn the TV off properly. |>

|> Perhaps the beast is running Windows based software inside in which |> case it could fail to restart properly upon power resumption. Or it |> could be from any number of other bad design decisions. | | I can't believe it is anything more serious than not allowing | the post-operation cooling cycle to complete. If these things | really break when power is removed (for whatever reason), | Sony will have a massive problem on its hands. I just don't | believe that even the modern Sony of today is that stupid.

I've heard of such things happening, not in all cases, but in some cases, particularly if power is lost very shortly after it comes on (think: reclosers). It's probably not a big problem, but it is their problem.

| If you don't warn consumers with strong enough language, | they will connect their big-screen (or projector) to a switched | outlet and it will never get the power-down cooling cycle. | And/or it will go through the setup routine (finding channels, | etc.) every time you turn it on.

Still, IMHO, a bad design. Active cooling should not be needed when there is no active heating. And channel status should be saved in flash memory, and periodically scanned when not in use, as well as channel status noted whcn the user changes around. The full scan should only be needed on initial setup or when the user requests it.

|> I have already noticed that some some DVD players that remember where |> on the DVD you currently are at if you turn the player off with the |> power button fail to do that if you just unplug it. Bad design, but |> given the limitations of flash memory, they certainly don't want to |> be saving the current position every second. With proper power supply |> design, however, the CPU and flash memory can remain powered long |> enough |> when the mains power source goes out to complete a flash save. They |> apparently don't want to design that. | | The average frequency of power interruption seems unlikely | to warrant such extraordinary measures. I doubt it even uses | Flash. Remember that lots of consumer stuff (most especially | VCRs, etc.) just turn off the display and continue to consume | just as much power as when they were "on".

Given that the original statement was:

|> |>I have just bought a new Sony Bravia 46S2010 LCD TV. The operations |> |>manual warns against pulling the AC plug without first turning off

It seems like it is acceptable to pull the plug so long as you have done a turn off operation first. That's not consistent with a device that keeps its data only in volatile RAM. If it's just a RAM issue, then pulling the plug won't care whether a turnoff is done or not. So I suspect it is storing in RAM but with a sufficient power supply to keep the DC level up long enough to complete the flash save, or a lack of ability to detect loss of AC power. Bad design.

In alt.engineering.electrical James Sweet wrote: | snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: |> In alt.engineering.electrical **THE-RFI-EMI-GUY** wrote: |> |> | I have just bought a new Sony Bravia 46S2010 LCD TV. The operations |> | manual warns against pulling the AC plug without first turning off the |> | TV. - No problem, I would like to run the TV and my Pioneer 300 disc |> | PD-F1007 Jukebox CD changer* from a UPS |> |> IMHO, this is sufficient mis-feature to urge others to not buy such a |> product. Sony needs to re-hire some decent design engineers. |> | | | This has been the case for decades with high powered projection devices. | Remember the old slide projectors that would run the fan for a few | minutes after shutting it off?

So what about their design makes it a problem for cooling to go from active to passive when the heating goes from active to none? It would seem to me that a slower cooling process would be less stressful. But apparently some aspect of it is a problem where temperature presumably will rise somewhere that active cooling would have prevented (e.g. cool parts adjacent to hot parts). Someone didn't consider thermal in the mechanical design.

Or the punters demanded it small and cheap. Lots of equipment requires a shut-down cycle. You're used to it with your computer, your ink-jet printer. If they reckon the projector bulb will last longer with controlled cooling, why should we take an attitude?

Modern projectors (especially "road-warrior", portable type), servo-controlled lamps, etc. etc. would be non-viable in the modern market it they were designed large enough to allow unaided convection cooling. Furthermore the heat is so concentrated far inside that I question whether one could design such equipment for natural cooling regardless of size.

PLEASE turn off the HTML crap.

Suppressors that have so much group delay across the audible passband that they prevent the low-rate caller ID signal from being properly detected have to be pretty awful. If it doesn't meet WECO specs, don't put it on the line.

--scott

It always amazes me that in this day and age we still have people who prefer

Next someone will ask for upper case only, 5 level Baudot, because they are reading this group on a Teletype Model 28.

Well HTML has its place, and I'm not terribly bothered by it but really what in these discussion groups requires anything beyond plain text? It's an information forum, not an art gallery. I can very much respect a desire for clean efficiency, extra fluff just gets in the way.

Besides, a lot of html pages have a lousy font, and also, I like to choose my lettersize if you dont mind. Size and type are often repulsive, and override my own choice.

Usenet has been running quite nicely, thank you, for much longer than you knew computers or the internet existed. And long before the IBM PC, even.

If you don't like Usenet, you can go to one of hundreds or thousands of web-based discussion groups where you can futz up your text however you like. Don't assume that the rest of the world is viewing this Usenet newsgroup as you are. If you act like too much of a boor or a boob, we will just plonk you and you might as well stop posting.

While HTML does not solve all the problems. It does allow for italics, and bold face for emphasis. It allow chemical formulas that look something like what shows up in text books. Instead of H2SO4, I can use small fonts for the digits. Although it is a pain, there would be some formulas useful in this group that will look better in HTML.

Bill

-- Fermez le Bush

This is Usenet. This is not the web. If you want to use web protocols on the Web, that is fine. But you are not on the Web, you are on Usenet.

That would not be apropriate, because that is not a protocol used by Usenet. This is Usenet. Nor would "1981 IBM PC text" which has high bit characters. Usenet is not 8-bit clean. This is Usenet.

--scott

Richard,

I've been around since way before Fidonet linked up to the Internet. My Google / Deja News tracks go back to 1992 and I've been in telecommunications since the mid 1970's. I know all the old war stories as well as the ancient edicts frowning on HTML so that Apple, ATARI, Sinclair, Timex, TTY, IBM, UNIX, and OUIJA boards could be on common ground.

It's the holidays. How about cutting us old farts some slack.

|> PLEASE turn off the HTML crap. |>

| | It always amazes me that in this day and age we still have people who prefer | 1981 IBM PC text. | | Next someone will ask for upper case only, 5 level Baudot, because they are | reading this group on a Teletype Model 28.

If you want HTML, use a service designed for it ... the WEB!

Usenet/NNTP was not designed for it. Most newsreaders not part of a web browser don't do HTML. Not much is lost w/o HTML. Postings should be about content, not fancy presentations.

In alt.engineering.electrical Salmon Egg wrote: | On 12/26/06 2:14 PM, in article 89hkh.7703$6Z5.2753@trndny01, "James Sweet" | wrote: | |> Steve Stone wrote: |>>> PLEASE turn off the HTML crap. |>>> |>> |>> |>> It always amazes me that in this day and age we still have people who prefer |>> 1981 IBM PC text. |>> |>> Next someone will ask for upper case only, 5 level Baudot, because they are |>> reading this group on a Teletype Model 28. |>> |>> |>> |> |> |> Well HTML has its place, and I'm not terribly bothered by it but really |> what in these discussion groups requires anything beyond plain text? |> It's an information forum, not an art gallery. I can very much respect a |> desire for clean efficiency, extra fluff just gets in the way. | | While HTML does not solve all the problems. It does allow for italics, and | bold face for emphasis. It allow chemical formulas that look something like | what shows up in text books. Instead of H2SO4, I can use small fonts for the | digits. Although it is a pain, there would be some formulas useful in this | group that will look better in HTML.

So insert a URL when you need to show something beyond what ASCII can do. That's how I've done it many times in alt.engineering.electrical.

In alt.engineering.electrical Richard Crowley wrote: | wrote ... |> Still, IMHO, a bad design. Active cooling should not be needed |> when there is no active heating. | | Modern projectors (especially "road-warrior", portable type), | servo-controlled lamps, etc. etc. would be non-viable in the | modern market it they were designed large enough to allow | unaided convection cooling. Furthermore the heat is so | concentrated far inside that I question whether one could | design such equipment for natural cooling regardless of size.

But wasn't the OP talking about a home display model?

In alt.engineering.electrical Laurence Payne wrote: | On 26 Dec 2006 11:45:26 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@ipal.net wrote: | |>So what about their design makes it a problem for cooling to go from active |>to passive when the heating goes from active to none? It would seem to me |>that a slower cooling process would be less stressful. But apparently some |>aspect of it is a problem where temperature presumably will rise somewhere |>that active cooling would have prevented (e.g. cool parts adjacent to hot |>parts). Someone didn't consider thermal in the mechanical design. | | Or the punters demanded it small and cheap. Lots of equipment | requires a shut-down cycle. You're used to it with your computer, | your ink-jet printer. If they reckon the projector bulb will last | longer with controlled cooling, why should we take an attitude?

My computer has survived dozens of sudden power outages with no problem whatsoever. The printer seems to still be working fine, too (but I'm not stressing it with a dozen reams a day).